45 replies to this topic

[holmesy]

if you funnel this down to the carb then it should give a nice psi, Think of the POWER!!!!!!!!

[Gr4h4m]

Petrol Leaf blower :)

[Sprocket]

http://www.turbomaga...rger/index.html

[TopCatCustom]

If it's powered by electricity then there wouldn't be any difference between an electric supercharger and an electric supercharger.

There also isn't any difference between snake oil and snake oil!

There would be no point in making an electric supercharger, as it would be very inefficient to convert the rotational movement of the engine to electricity and back to rotational movement when just turning the turbine with the engine would be significantly more energy efficient.

I meant electric supercharger and electric turbocharger as per one of the earlier posts.

And with regards to turning the rotational movement of the engine to electricity and back to rotational movement again- there are a few hybrid sports cars on the cards which do just that, the new 200mph Porsche hybrid thing has NO drive to the front wheels but is 4wd done by converting the engine output to electricity then driving a motor.

It is all feasible, look at the technology in modern cars and you'll realise that electricity is replacing more and more mechanical parts! Electric fans were probably the first things in engines to replace the old mechanical alternatives, why? More efficient plus other benefits, now electric water pumps, PAS pumps and even oil pumps are being used, so why not an electric supercharger? I admit they seem crap at the moment but one day I definitely see someone designing one that works far more efficiently than a mechanically driven one.

[Ethel]

I can't see how you can have an electric turbo charger - turbo refers to the turbine the exhaust gasses use to drive the compressor. As you'd have to get the electricity from somewhere - almost certainly a belt driven alternator for a bolt on blower, then the advantage over driving it directly with a belt is less clear. Granted there's a potential advantage in not having a permanent & fixed ratio drive, and running an electric transmission would give you a good source to power your motor, but you could also largely negate the benefit of the blower by using the same power to help turn the wheels instead.

I see that as being the main appeal of electrical over mechanical - it's much easier to regulate and only produce as much effect as you need. A water pump that pumps faster if the temperature rises, an oil pump that slows down rather than waste power pushing oil through a relief valve. The biggy is the transmission if it lets you run a smaller engine at 100% efficiency, recharging batteries with surplus power that can be called on to assist the engine when you want more oomph than the engine can provide on its own.

[TopCatCustom]

I think people refer to a "turbo" when they mean a centrifugal supercharger. Also remember that when you suggest putting the power used by the charger into the wheels instead, a big supercharger which uses say 200bhp (on a big V8) produces more like 800bhp, so there should still be a benefit by using power to drive a blower if the design is good.

[Ethel]

That's true, though you would also lose the 200 from the wheels that drives a blower so the 800hp would need to include a gain of 400+ to be worthwhile (yes, this would apply to any blower, only a proper turbocharger would fair better but still lose some power in pumping losses. I guess it really depends on how long you need the extra power - leccy motors have such enormous , instant torque that it'd be hard for an engine to contribute anything extra useful while there's still life in the batteries.

[ibrooks]

I've seen it done and it did give boost on an MX5. No idea whether it's still out there and running or being developed.

The basic components were the compressor section of a turbo being driven through an epicyclic gearset by a high power electric motor (I think RC car in origin) and an Li-Ion battery to run it. The way it worked was similar to KERS in concept but using a different method. You could get a short boost from the charger but it drained the battery pack in the process (no connection to the alternator at this point to put load on the engine). Once the battery was flat a switch was thrown that killed the power to the charger and let the alternator charge the battery over the next few minutes whilst driving conventionally. Before the nay-sayers leap in the battery pack was smaller and lighter than a car battery.

Yes just connecting a motor to the car's electrical system will draw more power than it releases but if you can spread that draw over a long time and store that energy then it's not noticeable but when you get it back over a short time it does give a solid performance increase.

The car I've seen it in uses it down a drag strip so the boost was required for a very short predictable time. How it would perform in the real world I don't know as I can imagine you would often find yourself with no boost when you wanted it or running out just when you are having fun. Bigger battery packs would give a bigger buffer before they are flat but conversely would take longer to re-charge. Effectively you would need to learn to manage the boost - just like the F1 drivers manage KERS charge.

How many seconds of boost for how many minutes of charging I don't know - that would be the critical ratio that dictates whether it's worth bothering.

The concept is sound, it is do-able and it does work which is why those ebay sellers with a PC cooling fan manage to fool the odd person.

Iain

[Wil_h]

This was posted on April the 1st, right?

[TopCatCustom]

Why is it so hard to comprehend? I agree, at the moment the market is full of crap useless products that people think could make a huge difference.

BUT, as I've already said twice, almost every electrical moving component on modern engines was once done mechanically from a belt or something similar directly from the engine, but technology has made things move along and one day, just like electric PAS, electric water pumps, electric oil pumps, electric cooling fans, we could have electric forced induction, can't anyone think about possibilities? Like the thousands of people that said man could never go to the moon or the bottom of the oceans!


edit- no I'm not developing one or anything, just sticking up for future possible technology!

Edited by C4NN0N, 03 April 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[mini13]

PAS pumps, Aircon, cooling fans etc dont take approx 15-20+ hp to run.

[TopCatCustom]

So?

Electric PAS takes 50-60 amps, thats more than a standard mini alternator can make on a good day.

And superchargers are not as efficient as turbochargers, so we can assume that a turbo compressor directly driven by an electric motor is going to take a hell of a lot less than a supercharger to make the same boost. Just stating facts, at the end of the day, even if it were no more efficient, why does it matter how you drive the same thing? Like vehicles, can be mechanical with a clutch and gears, auto's have a liquid connection in the torque converter to do the same job, hydrostatic is done with a big belt which is another way, hydraulics can be used to do the same job or new cars can be electric.

It's just transferring power from the engine to the ancillary by one means or another.

[mini13]

"So" where are we going to put a 15-20 hp electric motor...

[mini-luke]

"So" where are we going to put a 15-20 hp electric motor...

That's a fair point, a 5hp electric motor's about the same size as an A series block!

[HUBBA.HUBBA]

I've seen it done and it did give boost on an MX5. No idea whether it's still out there and running or being developed.

The basic components were the compressor section of a turbo being driven through an epicyclic gearset by a high power electric motor (I think RC car in origin) and an Li-Ion battery to run it. The way it worked was similar to KERS in concept but using a different method. You could get a short boost from the charger but it drained the battery pack in the process (no connection to the alternator at this point to put load on the engine). Once the battery was flat a switch was thrown that killed the power to the charger and let the alternator charge the battery over the next few minutes whilst driving conventionally. Before the nay-sayers leap in the battery pack was smaller and lighter than a car battery.

Yes just connecting a motor to the car's electrical system will draw more power than it releases but if you can spread that draw over a long time and store that energy then it's not noticeable but when you get it back over a short time it does give a solid performance increase.

The car I've seen it in uses it down a drag strip so the boost was required for a very short predictable time. How it would perform in the real world I don't know as I can imagine you would often find yourself with no boost when you wanted it or running out just when you are having fun. Bigger battery packs would give a bigger buffer before they are flat but conversely would take longer to re-charge. Effectively you would need to learn to manage the boost - just like the F1 drivers manage KERS charge.

How many seconds of boost for how many minutes of charging I don't know - that would be the critical ratio that dictates whether it's worth bothering.

The concept is sound, it is do-able and it does work which is why those ebay sellers with a PC cooling fan manage to fool the odd person.

Iain

There's only one road car i can Think of that has KERS, but i am sure there'll be more coming. Would be nice to have a 'KERS kit'