32 replies to this topic

[tiger99]

If you are going to Halfords it will be much cheaper to buy some Plus-gas. I suspect that it is easier to buy decent quantities of acetone in the US than the UK, where it is difficult.

But I am not sure that either type of penetrating oil will do much to loosen a tight press fit.

On the other hand, if you can support the back of the arm on a heavy, rigid piece of steel of some description, and whack the end of the spindle hard with a fairly heavy hammer, you will manage a peak load of thousands of G, which will translate into short peaks of possibly tens of tons of force, so it is likely that the pin will begin to move, albeit slowly. The key is in getting all the kinetic energy of the hammer dissipated in a very short distance, and not wasted by deflecting the backing piece or the face of the hammer. Hard impact between solid pieces of hard steel is to be avoided except when you need to loosen, mutilate, or destroy something, as the forces involved can be very high indeed.

But any decent garage will press it out for you for a modest charge.

[mike.]

Any idea where I can buy Plus-gas off the shelf in the UK? I can see it online but don't want to wait around the rest of the week for it to be posted and either way I could do with some sort of penetrating fluid for taking the radius arm off.

Once its off i'll have a look over it and see if I reckon hammering the hell out of it is worthwhile.

Thing is, this damaged stub axle is the drivers side, the passenger side is fine but the bushes on that side have play in them. So either way i'm thinking these arms are past their best and just putting a pair of refurbed ones on for piece of mind. That way i'll have fresh rad arms, hubs, bearings and brakes all round and hopefully keeping them regularly greased I won't have problems for a long time.

My main concern at the moment is getting the rad arms off without shearing anything, as i've heard many horror stories about that and the rear subframe mounts shearing.

[Big_Adam]

Any idea where I can buy Plus-gas off the shelf in the UK? I can see it online but don't want to wait around the rest of the week for it to be posted and either way I could do with some sort of penetrating fluid for taking the radius arm off.

[snip]

My main concern at the moment is getting the rad arms off without shearing anything, as i've heard many horror stories about that and the rear subframe mounts shearing.

I got my plus-gas just up the local privately owned shoppe, just go in and ask. As for shearing things, I had one sheered bolt already, the second I did due to lack of heat, Wd40 and turning the bolt the wrong way like an utter spud.

[mike.]

Right, turns out plusgas isn't as hard to source as I first thought. All my local DIY/motorfactor shops sell it, so been and go a tin of that.

So going to clean the area around the bolt heads as its full of muck/waxoyl at the mo and then give them a few blasts of plus gas and give them a knock with a hammer and leave them for today. I don't have a garage so need a day of guaranteed good weather if i'm going to be taking the fuel tank out, so I can leave it a couple of days to soak.

Then hopefully they'll free off and i'll use Doug's tip to get them out.

My car has some adjustable camber brackets fitted too so i'll need to figure out how that work aswell for refitting them.

[dklawson]

I suspect that it is easier to buy decent quantities of acetone in the US than the UK, where it is difficult.

Sorry. I assumed it would not be too hard to find acetone in the U.K. It is still available in modest sized containers in our home center (DIY stores) with the painting supplies.

I agree. For a press fit, penetrating oil will make no difference on helping with disassembly.

[mike.]

I was going to use nail polish remover as i'm sure thats just 100% acetone, only downside is its probably around £6 for a 200ml bottle. If I see a decent bottle and some ATF cheap i'll get them both as sounds like they'll be handy to have around to make my own penetrating oil :)

[Stevie W]

Hi Mike,
When you get round to fitting the brake back plate over your new stub axles, be very careful how you slide the back plate over the larger diameter of the stub axle, where the bearing oil seal sits.
I only mention it because your first picture shows a few deep "dings" in this area. This will allow water/moisture/brake dust into your inner bearing which will quickly wreck it!
Hope this helps
Steve.

Edited by Stevie W, 04 September 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[mike.]

Yeah its taken a right beating hasn't it!? Don't know how that can happen but it sure wasn't me!

But thanks for the tip, i'll be taking care putting it all back together :)

Edited by mike., 04 September 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Tamworthbay]

Try shock and unlock from halfords. It is amazing stuff. I was a bit sceptical when a mate suggested it but I have got things undone I never thought I move in a million years.

[mike.]

Yeah i've got a bit of that actually, tried it on my seized brake adjusters along with a blowtorch to no avail. But they were rounded off too to add to my troubles.

This is all a precaution anyway, they might just turn out fine.... maybe

[Yoda]

Sorry. I assumed it would not be too hard to find acetone in the U.K. It is still available in modest sized containers in our home center (DIY stores) with the painting supplies.

The good old Bay of E is a good source for Acetone, from 100ml to 25 litre drums. I just bought a litre for £2.88!

[Stevie W]

Yeah its taken a right beating hasn't it!? Don't know how that can happen but it sure wasn't me!

But thanks for the tip, i'll be taking care putting it all back together :)

No probs, hope you get it sorted!

[mike.]

Just thought i'd update this, took both arms off ok, luckily no sheared bolts

Took the arms to be refurbed and got a call earlier about the one is question; apparently in the past the bushes have been so badly worn that they ate into the arm, but rather than scrap the arm it has been machined out by around 2mm to take a bigger bush and then reamed to size. So the standard sized bush now just drops into place in the arm and it is basically scrap.

This has made the arm out of true and would've meant my rear tracking must of been out quite badly. My car has rear camber brackets fitted but not tracking adjustable ones and there were no shims fitted so I think this is what may have caused the damage to the axle

[tiger99]

The arm is probably not scrap, nor should oversize bushes cause problems with the tracking, not at least if theye were bored concentric to the original. It only needs a bit of simple work with a lathe to make a new set of sleeves so that standard bushes will fit. I would have thought that those who recondition radius arms would have the capability to do that.

In any case that can not explain the damage to the stub axle. It takes a lot more than a tracking error to do damage like that.

I am quite sure that the car was at one time in the hands of a complete idiot (sadly all too common), who neglected both the radius arm pivots and the wheel bearings, and when a set of wheel bearings eventually had enough mistreatment and developed a lot of play, as well as spinning on the shaft, he then grossly overtightened the but to try to take up the play, thus stretching and cracking the stub axle.

[mike.]

Yeah I did think that, but I guess if the bushes weren't installed/reamed correctly that'd put the tracking out.

Even if repairable, the cost makes it scrap as I got another arm good condition arm for refurbing for £20 so not too bad. Should be picking them up tomorrow hopefully and getting it all back together.

Are shims usually needed to set the toe on a mini or is it usually ok just bolting straight to the subframe?

Just because mine had no shims fitted and my outer arm brackets are only camber adjustable not tracking as well.