55 replies to this topic

[Jwatts93]

So if I don't remove the inner wings I don't need the BIVA test and it will be ok ? Ill still be using extra bracing

[Jwatts93]

Also where are the best place to add bracing ?

[Tupers]

No of course I'll add bracebars. And will I need to remove any inner wing? to get it to fit? I have a Rivnut kit so may well go that way.

I was more pointing out that some one (possibly a muppet) at the DVLA or VOSA with no knowledge of Minis has allegedly said you can keep your log book if you keep in the inner wings when they are infact useless without the rest of the original front end.

[Ethel]

It's unlikely you'll "need" an IVA. Just check you can get it insured, and find a tester who'll be happy to MoT it first.

Inner wings are structurally useless if they aren't attached to outer wings to form a box. You won't fit a (thicker, GRP) flip front over them without some modification either.

[tiger99]

Yes, the inner wings certainly are structurally uselses unless boxed by the outers, and there was a muppet at VOSA who seemed to think otherwise. In the event of an accident, or being stopped by the police, his statement would be of no help at all in court, as he clearly was not a structural engineer.

You may need IVA, if and when the authorities enforce their own rules, which is apparently not happening right now. Be aware that no Mini, unless extensively modified in many areas, will pass. In the meantime fit proper bracing bars, and preferably a full solid mount kit to the subframe. If you do get into IVA problems, the best bet is to revert to an all-steel front, which is not all that hard. Just refit partial inner wings (the majority remains anyway, from the damper mounts backwards), front panel and outer wings.

I don't like flip fronts due to them giving even less accident protection than a standard Mini, so be aware of its limitations.

[Bungle]

keeping the inner wings isn't a structural thing it's a vehicle identity thing

if you remove large parts of the car and replace with something different it's not the same car any more so why should it keeps the previous identity ?

a lot of people are getting the strength and identity mixed up with these inner wings

Edited by Bungle, 16 January 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[steven]

the IVA police are here !

[Bungle]

no just putting stop to scaremongering and incorrect information

[Sam Walters]

no just putting stop to scaremongering and incorrect information

So what you're saying about it lowering the value of mini`s isn't scaremongering and incorrect information.

I`m not sure about your job or the industry that's in, but the industry i work in and in my job role every claim i make i have to substantiate.

Now given what you're saying has no constant you cant compare and thus cannot make such a comment. I wouldn't anyway.

[Bungle]

just look at ebay and see what sells and for how much

a good bog standard mini makes better money than a modified one and it's not me buying the standard ones up to prove a point

[Alex_B]

People dont tend to like buying a car thats already had a flip front fitted, unless done for weight and performance reasons chances are its been done because its easier and quicker, what else is done quickly or bodged on the car etc etc, I would much prefer to buy a solid car thats not been messed with.

thus cars with GRP fronts do sell for less

[Sam Walters]

just look at ebay and see what sells and for how much

a good bog standard mini makes better money than a modified one and it's not me buying the standard ones up to prove a point

How many flip fronted mini`s do you see for sale on there that are in good condition? Hold that, how many do you see for sale that have a flip front?

Again, not like you can compare is it?

But whatever keeps you warm at night.

Ill just keep commenting every time I see you give what I feel to be misleading information.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-MINI-1000-AUTO-GOLD-/110998359440?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&nma=true&si=AAMiC2aWdl5rF%2FSJ9mHcNxitgRo%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Sam Walters]

http://www.ebay.co.u...cvip=true&rt=nc

One fairly solid and seemingly original car.

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/205981-1987-austin-mini-city-e-998-1275/page__hl__%2Bflip+%2Bfront

One clean car. Modified flip fronted. Not a GRP front admittedly but somehow i don't think that's going to make up for the £1900 price difference.

People dont tend to like buying a car thats already had a flip front fitted, unless done for weight and performance reasons chances are its been done because its easier and quicker, what else is done quickly or bodged on the car etc etc, I would much prefer to buy a solid car thats not been messed with.

thus cars with GRP fronts do sell for less

[Alex_B]

Metal flip fronts are a bit different as they take more work than grp to fit and usually fit is better and its not seen so much as a bodge as a style thing,

I am just working by logic that someone would prefer a clean original car than one thats had a GRP front fitted for no apparent reason as the reason normally is its easier which is a bodge in my books as easier doesn't include the structural work needed

[Ethel]

What the DVLA did put in writing was that a monocoque constructed car has to retain what is structurally equivalent to the chassis, according to the original manufacturer. I think the best indicator we have is what would earn you an MoT failure.

You could say you can pass a test without inner wings so they are not structural, or you could say you have to add new structure with brace bars so the original structure has been modified. You can only hope common sense would prevail - an IVA wouldn't assess the structure, without without inner wings or brace bars. It would have something to say about sharp edges on mouldings & sticky out bonnet pins though, so it's probably best to build to a standard that'd pass and make it a moot point.