126 replies to this topic

[lrostoke]

really bloody odd.

 

Have you tried turning the dizzy while its spinning to see if you hit a sweet spot where it will start ?? Then noting what the timing is at that point ??

[KernowCooper]

splash of silver paint and out the door job

Edited by KernowCooper, 25 June 2013 - 10:07 PM.

[Captain Mainwaring]

I'm 300 miles down in Cornwall so unless your down for a trip.......

 

Just read your install and your checking the timing at 750rpm which your getting 5-7egs advance, increase the speed to a 1000rpm and check the timing with the advance off then and see what you have then, If the timing is advanced more than the 5-7degs you had at 750rpm it points towards a weak spring which controls the initial advance.I always do all mine at 1000rpm vac off,

 

Is the  trigermodule on the bass plate secure? and check the air gap between the black trigger ring and the red module, the black ring should not be touching the red module a air gap should exist but there is no specific air gap given by powersparks.

 

 

Interesting you should mention that. The closer the initiator is to the trigger, the more advanced the timing will be and obviously the reverse is true.

You can use it as a sort of vernier adjustment within limits.

[lrostoke]

I have the Aldon ignitor fitted to mine, similar idea..it state

 

0.025" air gap between module and magnet ring

[mister bridger]

I had exactly this problem with a unit from Simonbbc, had it checked out by Gerald Dale (Mini Guru) and we could not get to the problem, so I gave up and put all the workings from my old dizzy into the shiny new body of the new one, keeping the new vacuum unit and all is good. Had to assume something was wrong with the electronics in the new one. Will be very interested in the final outcome of this as a certain member on here was adamant that neither I nor Gerald was capable of fitting and timing a dizzy!

[Captain Mainwaring]

I had exactly this problem with a unit from Simonbbc, had it checked out by Gerald Dale (Mini Guru) and we could not get to the problem, so I gave up and put all the workings from my old dizzy into the shiny new body of the new one, keeping the new vacuum unit and all is good. Had to assume something was wrong with the electronics in the new one. Will be very interested in the final outcome of this as a certain member on here was adamant that neither I nor Gerald was capable of fitting and timing a dizzy!

 

 

Take every fault at face value. When you have eliminated everything it can't be, then what you are left with it what the problem is. It's hardly fair to sling the thing in the box and give up because you didn't (a) find the fault yourself or (b) send it back and ask it be rigged checked.

 

I found the guy to be perfectly reliable and so was the kit.

 

Now, boys and girls, you need to look beyond the obvious. The complaints are all pretty much the same, the car starts and runs fine with the old distrbutor, and once running is fine with the powerspark unit....Uhm...why could that be?

 

Anyone with bike experience who has gone from a points set up to say a boyer unit will tell you that if the battery voltage drops, that while the thing would start and run with points, there was no way it would start with the electronic unit - jump it, and it would start and run fine, let it stop, and you couldn't start it again.

 

Many electronic ignitions are VERY voltage sensitive, especially those driving low impedance coils. The voltage drops much below 11.5 and they won't generate a spark.

 

Bearing in mind the long cable runs from the battery to starter on a mini, any joint with less than perfect contact will generate a voltage drop, particularly while cranking. While a points system will still tolerate this and you'll get a spark, albeit weak, electronic system may just cut off if the voltage is too high or too low (crowbar protection).

 

I'd suggest that the first thing anyone does is to measure voltage at the switched ignition cable while cranking - if it drops much....you ain't going anywhere - you can check battery voltage while cranking - at the battery itself, see where you have high impedance. If battery voltage is still OK, run a temporary ignition feed - I'd have a good bet that your problems will be over.......

 

http://www.britbike....t&Number=254020

 

Boyers won't do anything at 10.5Volts - on a cold cranking mini with a little bit of resistance here and there - you're doomed.

Edited by Captain Mainwaring, 26 June 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[KernowCooper]

Now if the mechanical advance unit was not returning the car would run lovely through the range but upon stopping the mechanical advance could be stuck at +7/8degs now try and start and your to far advanced, slip off the distributor cap catch hold of the rotor arm and tweak it does it suddenly go click and slip back ? could be just what the fault is?

[Yoda]

Definitely had this before on a recon dizzy, a bit of cleaning and it returned fine, and problem was sorted.

 

You are describing the symptoms people see when fitting a competition dizzy to a road car that has no vac advance fitted.

[KernowCooper]

And the quality and finish of the weights ? even though its new could be poor quality control and rough finish.

[KernowCooper]

Well Lucas certainly don't make new ones anymore, and the far east seems to be the place where most of the pattern stuff comes from.

 

Here you go Yuyao Zhunshi Electric Co Made In China http://yuyao90.en.ma...ition-25d4.html

Edited by KernowCooper, 26 June 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[The Freak]

The volt drop theory doesn't explain how the engine rotates when dizzy in one location but not in another.  It is not that it won't fire up it won't turn over.

 

However, since I super tuned it the other night it has been running like a dream.  I might not bother with electronic ignition...Points and capacitor will last forever...won't they?

 

On the condensor note.  Powerspark left a message on my phone saying my condensor was ready to be collected?????????   I think they might have me confused with someone else. 

 

Why are they called condesnors on ignition systems but capacitors everywhere else?

[KernowCooper]

Ok the points and condensors we curently have available are often poor quality compared to when the car was in production and pre-electronic, a company called intermotor still manufacture points and condensors and are made in their own factory and are worth looking out for if your staying with points.

 

What about just fitting a electronic kit in your distributor, that will give you reliability you wont get with points,and lots here have fitted that kit and not had any of the issues you've had. If its a every day driver I'd say a electronic kit is a must.

 

 

The term condensors is when they were fitted on the old electrics and today its capacitor

Edited by KernowCooper, 26 June 2013 - 10:00 PM.

[Captain Mainwaring]

The volt drop theory doesn't explain how the engine rotates when dizzy in one location but not in another.  It is not that it won't fire up it won't turn over.

 

However, since I super tuned it the other night it has been running like a dream.  I might not bother with electronic ignition...Points and capacitor will last forever...won't they?

 

On the condensor note.  Powerspark left a message on my phone saying my condensor was ready to be collected?????????   I think they might have me confused with someone else. 

 

Why are they called condesnors on ignition systems but capacitors everywhere else?

 

 

Well the won't turn over bit does point to timing well advanced - but then it doesn't figure - you say you turn it back and it still won't fire, which it should.

 

I still go back to low cranking voltage. Just out of interest - next time you try cranking the thing over and it's all slow, pull the center lead off the distributor and see if the cranking speed stays the same or speeds up. If it stays the same then there's no spark, if it speeds up, the the timing has got itself all advanced.

 

It can do no harm to check cranking voltage at the distributor, then if nothing else, your one step closer to apportioning blame/finding the fault.

 

Condenser is a term that has largely gone out of fashion, but it is still used in electronics, just not so much any more.

 

Unfortunately points and condenser won't last for ever, the points are the weak link - the heel of the points wears and closes up the gap, and the points will suffer from material transfer from one side to the other - yes, points can be given a quick file up, but it's still a weak link.

In saying that, poor quality electronics are also a weak link and if for some reason these distributor housings are flawed so the balance weights are locking up or the base plate isn't free, then yes....you're better off with the 200 year old distributr that was at least made in the days when everything wasn't just throwaway.

Edited by Captain Mainwaring, 27 June 2013 - 12:24 AM.

[krusher74]

I come from the VW side of the fence and this story sounds typical of the new "china" parts that are being sold, sometimes you get a good one sometimes not, but they all usually fail way before a OG parts does leaving you stranded.

The clues are usually when you have a problem and the vendor says "send it back,we will send you a new one" they throw your old 5 quid distributor in the bin and send you a new 5 quid one.

(I have no personal experience with powerspark products)

 

I personally just stick to good OG points as if your having an issue atleast you can turn the engine over with the cap off and see if there is a spark.

 

Would it be worth having a "powerspark" sticky so if these sorts of problems reoccur the evidence as to whether to buy or not could be in one place.? 

[Captain Mainwaring]

I come from the VW side of the fence and this story sounds typical of the new "china" parts that are being sold, sometimes you get a good one sometimes not, but they all usually fail way before a OG parts does leaving you stranded.

The clues are usually when you have a problem and the vendor says "send it back,we will send you a new one" they throw your old 5 quid distributor in the bin and send you a new 5 quid one.

(I have no personal experience with powerspark products)

 

I personally just stick to good OG points as if your having an issue atleast you can turn the engine over with the cap off and see if there is a spark.

 

Would it be worth having a "powerspark" sticky so if these sorts of problems reoccur the evidence as to whether to buy or not could be in one place.? 

 

 

 

Hehehehehehe.....silence is golden.