45 replies to this topic

[bluesprite]

Hi All,

I'm trying to take off a verto clutch and it's reluctant to move.

 

The C shaped washer that "needs to stay in place or flywheel removal becomes impossible" - how do you tell if it has moved out of place? in what way does it make flywheel removal impossible? does it move slightly and then get jammed against the washer?

 

Thanks!

 

[JustSteve]

see https://www.minispar...h.aspx?2~13~120

 

 

although I've not fully looked at it and can't fully remember, i think the washer sits in the recess in the boss (35) but isn't forced against it. the washer doesn't have room to move out far. the clutch plate (2) is where the primary gear fits. then there's the pressure plate that has a larger ID of the splines on the pressure plate meaning that there's essentially a step. 

 

 

If the Washer falls

here it'll never

come off

\/

----------_________----------

 

 

I'm sorry 

[A-Cell]

They are notoriously difficult. Tight as (insert your own suitable adjective!)
In theory if the crankshaft is set with no1 piston at TDC then gravity will keep the C washer in place, allowing the flywheel to be removed. However if the flywheel has been previously refitted then the washer could be upside down, thus gravity will dislodge it jamming the flywheel. Therefore safest way is to have no 1 piston halfway up the bore so that the C washer will be horizontal.

That said the flywheel can 'cold weld' itself to the taper and makes it very difficult to remove. Lots of posts on here with advice. Personal experience of a very difficult one was to squirt it with plus gas, put tool on, ensure the face of the tool is parallel to the face of the flywheel, wind tool up very tight, hit end of tool, tighten again. Left it overnight under tension, carried on the bash, tighten until it came off. It was so tight I buggered the big bolt in the tool, it stretched and would not undo again!

Crank and flywheel were fine, just lapped them with fine valve grinding paste before re-assembly.

[bluesprite]

Hi All,

Thanks for your help! however the tool has now been on for 3 weeks and the flywheel is still on!

 

It is currently so tight that the washers on the three outer bolts have squashed out of the sides of the bolt heads..

 

I tried spraying penetrating fluid in the end but that hasn't worked, I have tried hitting the flywheel through the starter hole (not particularly hard though because I can see it's a bad idea..)

I have borrowed some calor gas from work and heated the clutch boss up but it didn't release it.

I've made a 20mm hole in the inner wing so I can hit the big bolt on the tool with a mallet but that didn't release it.

I have borrowed an impact wrench and tried that but it didn't move the bolt.

 

I'm not sure what is left to try?

 

Surely the taper has to release for the c washer to drop and then lock the flywheel? and would this also stop the engine from turning?

[bluesprite]

Any ideas anyone?

 

I'm going to try to find a finer threaded bolt to use in the puller but if that doesn't work I'm all out of ideas :\

[Cooperman]

Heat it, hit the end of the big bolt on the puller very hard, heat it again and rapid cool it with water, hit it again. If it is still stuck, freeze it with plumbers 'Arctic Spray and hit it again. Continue to heat it quench it, hit it, freeze it, hit it, tighten the big bolt, hit it again and keep on repeating until it finally comes off.

I had one which took over 3 weeks on an MPI.

[A-Cell]

A lot of us have had that experience. Try Cooperman's recommendations. Arctic spray from Screwfix sorted one for me. On that one I buggered the flywheel puller (modern Laser one from Amazon or Halfords). The problem with the Laser puller is that the thread on the centre bolt is too fine. The old Sykes Pickavant tool worked very well, finer thread, larger diameter bolt allows more force to be applied.
They also did a hydraulic puller. Sadly these are not made any longer and used ones very rarely come up on eBay now.
I believe Med make a really tough one, but I think it requires the engine to be out of the car to use it.

Halfords do a similar product to Arctic freeze spray called Shock and Release. It freezes and applies penetratin oil.

Bigger bar, and a sledge hammer were how I got the last on off like that. Engine was out of car though.
Good luck

[xrocketengineer]

Other than what Cooperman suggested, I would use thicker washers on the three puller bolts and grease the threads on the pusher bolt and the bearing surfaces that contact the crankshaft.

[KernowCooper]

And please be careful to keep your hands away from the end of the bolt, when they come off they come off!

[minimauritius]

This is the puller I made after breaking two standard ones.

My cold weld flywheel didn't resist long with it.

Attached Files

•  IMG_1373.JPG   36.16K   36 downloads

[xrocketengineer]

Oh, I forgot! This helped a lot too while applying torque and preventing the flywheel from flying off.

[bluesprite]

Despite all of your great help, but despite trying your suggestions it's still stuck on!

 

I'm thinking of trying to source a new clutch/flywheel boss and then cutting the old one off.  Has anyone had any experience with this, or can think of any reason why it won't work?

I know that I will have to make absolutely sure not to cut through and into the crankshaft which seems like the biggest thing that can go wrong.

 

The plan would be to take the puller off and cut one slot into the boss (and spring plate) parallel to the crank shaft, then use the puller again.

 

Am I likely to hit something else?  My clutch kit already includes the spring plate so it doesn't matter about cutting that.

 

 

Thanks again everyone

[tiger99]

You could cut it. I would suggest that rather than cutting a slot, with great risk of going into the crankshaft, that you grind a flat, angled to match the taper. You will not need to go right through, as the boss will stretch and release the flywheel once it gets fairly thin. The fact that the area where you are grinding will be very hot will help. If you are getting too close to the crankshaft, the thin layer of metal remaining will turn blue and it will be obvious that you are close. Unfortunately it is a lot more work, and I suggest that you try other things again first.

 

Thermal shock has already been suggested. Heat it as hot as you dare, i.e. without risking damage, and cool it rapidly. I know you have done that, but doing it maybe 10 or 20 times, or more, may work as it may creep a little bit each time. Tighten the puller up each time, and give the central bolt a good whack too, plus some good thumps on the back. You may have to keep at it for a long time, but such things always do go, eventually.

 

The main limitation on how much pulling force you can apply is the 3 bolts and their threaded holes in the flywheel.  This situation needs desperate measures, and if you can get a thick metal plate and a suitably large bolt, you could make a puller with 3, or even 6, larger bolts, and drill and tap the flywheel accordingly.  Try to get grade 12.9 bolts (allen capheads are always 10.9 or 12.9), and drill and tap as deep as possible. You may as well drill right through for maximum bolt engagement, if you are prepared to scrap the flywheel.

 

The ultimate in desperation would be to drill a ring of holes right round the flywheel, just outboard of the primary gear (no point in ruining that), then run larger drills through until the holes overlap and the outer part of the flywheel is free.  That is a lot of work, but would give better access for grinding the remains and/or getting extra pulling power behind the boss.

[A-Cell]

So sorry it's still on. As Tiger says before resorting to cutting try the heat/ chill method. Try plumbing type Arctic spray as the cold shock when you cycle it through hot and cold (obviously with the puller still on). Halfords do a product called Shock and Unlock that is a combination of freeze and penetrating oil. http://www.halfords....tegoryId_165594

Worth trying before resorting to cutting. Good luck

[tiger99]

Just had another idea. It is rather brutal, but if you have access to a Kango hammer, or very small pneumatic drill, or maybe even an SDS hammer drill with rotation stop, grind one of the tools to a blunt end and put that against the back side. Rotate half a turn and repeat as needed. A lot of rapid, hard impacts may shift it. Keep the puller on of course, and keep it tight.

Edited by tiger99, 11 September 2013 - 09:37 AM.