32 replies to this topic

[berthog021165]

 

You used to be able to buy a stick on element but I don't think you can get them now, I'm pretty sure mini spares sold them years ago but I've spoken to them and they don't do then anymore.

 

They were for the rear window. For the front there used to be small electric heater elements about 12" long which attached to the bottom of the screen and they worked a bit, but not as well as a full gold-filament +heated screen.

 

Thank you for your reply most helpful

[berthog021165]

There is no kit to build a heated front screen. The screen is laminated and has extremely fine gold threads between the bus-bars (which are what the silver strips are called. When switched on, the current flows across the bus-bars from positive to negative via the gold threads and the resistance of the threads heats them up and clears the mist or frost.

The fine gold threads cannot be applied externally, they sit between the laminations of the screen during manufacture, so a new screen is needed. They are a fantastic thing on a Mini which has poor de-misting capabilities.

A 70-amp alternator is necessary as the heated screen does take a lot of power. The screen needs to have relays in the switching circuit and be protected by fuse(s).

 

 

There is no kit to build a heated front screen. The screen is laminated and has extremely fine gold threads between the bus-bars (which are what the silver strips are called. When switched on, the current flows across the bus-bars from positive to negative via the gold threads and the resistance of the threads heats them up and clears the mist or frost.

The fine gold threads cannot be applied externally, they sit between the laminations of the screen during manufacture, so a new screen is needed. They are a fantastic thing on a Mini which has poor de-misting capabilities.

A 70-amp alternator is necessary as the heated screen does take a lot of power. The screen needs to have relays in the switching circuit and be protected by fuse(s).

Thank you for the detailed reply. Very much appreciated :)

I will potentially look at a new screen as I want the authentic look of a 60s works mini

[Cooperman]

Are you building a full Cooper 'S' rally replica?

There were so many different 'works' rally cars from the original 1960 850 right up to the 1969 Mk.2 Cooper 'S' with split-Webers, knock-on Minilite wheels, etc.

The book 'The Works Minis' by Peter Browning, or Bill Price's book 'The BMC/BLMC Competitions Department' are both excellent sources of information and will help with whichever of the works cars you are trying to replicate.

A friend of mine built a replica of AJB44B and I swapped my heated screen which had the visible bus-bars for one where the bus-bars couldn't be seen so that he could replicate the original look, whilst as mine is a current historic rally car I was happy to not have the bars visible.

The big costs will come when you want to get the instrumentation right for the replica. A Halda Speedpilot or Tripmaster is very expensive these days as is an 8-day clock or the Heuer clocks the 'works' used.

If I can help with the specification let me know. I've even done a few rallies in an ex-works Mini (18CRX).

[Ivor Badger]

Lost my works mini book years ago, but did early works minis not use a perspex deflector along the bottom of the screen to help the luke warm air from the fug strirrer up the screen.

 

Had a friend who had the correct heated screen which he got with a discount for doing the RAC. when preparing the car for the Circuit of Ireland he asked for opinions about the screen. Take it out was the general opinion. He left it in as it had snowed the previous year. So while sitting at the start of a stage in blazing sunshine it got a rock from the car in front. But the navigator got an Escort twin cam out of the event as his road car.

Edited by Ivor Badger, 07 October 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[ace01]

Early Works minis and Coopers (997s) used a perspex

 

Lost my works mini book years ago, but did early works minis not use a perspex deflector along the bottom of the screen to help the luke warm air from the fug strirrer up the screen.

 

Early works minis and Coopers (997s) used the perspex deflector and a small bar heater at the base of the screen.  Having used this arrangement for a few years, I can say that it is better than just the fug stirrer, but not much.

[Cooperman]

I remember fitting the Perspex air directors on an early 850.

Not very effective really and when the gold-filament heated screens came along they were the complete answer so long as you didn't leave them on fort a long time when the heads and spots were all on as well. Now, with big alternators it's not such a problem. 

[berthog021165]

Are you building a full Cooper 'S' rally replica?

There were so many different 'works' rally cars from the original 1960 850 right up to the 1969 Mk.2 Cooper 'S' with split-Webers, knock-on Minilite wheels, etc.

The book 'The Works Minis' by Peter Browning, or Bill Price's book 'The BMC/BLMC Competitions Department' are both excellent sources of information and will help with whichever of the works cars you are trying to replicate.

A friend of mine built a replica of AJB44B and I swapped my heated screen which had the visible bus-bars for one where the bus-bars couldn't be seen so that he could replicate the original look, whilst as mine is a current historic rally car I was happy to not have the bars visible.

The big costs will come when you want to get the instrumentation right for the replica. A Halda Speedpilot or Tripmaster is very expensive these days as is an 8-day clock or the Heuer clocks the 'works' used.

If I can help with the specification let me know. I've even done a few rallies in an ex-works Mini (18CRX).

 

 

Are you building a full Cooper 'S' rally replica?

There were so many different 'works' rally cars from the original 1960 850 right up to the 1969 Mk.2 Cooper 'S' with split-Webers, knock-on Minilite wheels, etc.

The book 'The Works Minis' by Peter Browning, or Bill Price's book 'The BMC/BLMC Competitions Department' are both excellent sources of information and will help with whichever of the works cars you are trying to replicate.

A friend of mine built a replica of AJB44B and I swapped my heated screen which had the visible bus-bars for one where the bus-bars couldn't be seen so that he could replicate the original look, whilst as mine is a current historic rally car I was happy to not have the bars visible.

The big costs will come when you want to get the instrumentation right for the replica. A Halda Speedpilot or Tripmaster is very expensive these days as is an 8-day clock or the Heuer clocks the 'works' used.

If I can help with the specification let me know. I've even done a few rallies in an ex-works Mini (18CRX).

Hi Thanks for the note. The car has been in a Monte Carlo challenge in the 70s's as I have some of the original photographs. I am looking for a works rally. 

It had a 850 engine and had been tuned by downton with downton parts. It already has the dashboard instrument panel clocks with navigation holders, lights.etc. Someone has spent a lot of money with the look. I have added a hand light on the wing as I could not find the roof light. This is an original rally spot light.

I took it on the London to Brighton run in 2010 but the engine was a bit of a struggle. So 2 years ago I purchased a 1275 A+ engine. I have had this bored out to 1310 with new bearings, and a total professional refurbishment. It will have a 1 and quarter su Carb. This sat in the garage until recently. I am having it professionally fitted and I have uprated the brakes to disc brakes. Therefore I have had to then purchase reverse rims. I wanted originals so I purchased a set of Dunlops. They are being powder coated as we speak and a professional wheel company. 

I have also fitted a roof rack and 2 wheels and snow tyres.

I have kept all the original parts so I can return it's original condition if I want to. I just need it to be practical for the modern day roads. I would love to travel through the Alps with it. I will work out how to upload pics so you can see it

[email protected]

[Cooperman]

You have the 7.5" Cooper 'S' brakes I trust, as 10" wheel won't fit over 8.4" discs (lots of threads on this).

A one-and-a-quarter carb is far too small for this. For a 1960's rally replica at minimum you need a pair of H4 or HS4 SU carbs (each 1.5").

Rally cars don't compete with roof racks fitted. The only reason the works used them was on events where there were several starting points and there was a need to get the cars to the start of the 'concentration' point where competition started, at which point the roof racks were removed as they do really slow the car down and increase fuel consumption. The wheels on the roof racks were then transferred to the service cars.

An A+ engine is not eligible for Historic Rallies, only the pre-A+.

If you want some detailed photos of my 1964 Cooper 'S' historic rally car PM me your personal email address.

[berthog021165]

You have the 7.5" Cooper 'S' brakes I trust, as 10" wheel won't fit over 8.4" discs (lots of threads on this).

A one-and-a-quarter carb is far too small for this. For a 1960's rally replica at minimum you need a pair of H4 or HS4 SU carbs (each 1.5").

Rally cars don't compete with roof racks fitted. The only reason the works used them was on events where there were several starting points and there was a need to get the cars to the start of the 'concentration' point where competition started, at which point the roof racks were removed as they do really slow the car down and increase fuel consumption. The wheels on the roof racks were then transferred to the service cars.

An A+ engine is not eligible for Historic Rallies, only the pre-A+.

If you want some detailed photos of my 1964 Cooper 'S' historic rally car PM me your personal email address.

Hi Thank you for the advice

Come to think of it the carb is the 1.5 inch also the wheels are reverse rims to fit over the disc brakes. I was not thinking of entering into the historic rallies. 

by personal email is [email protected]

[Ivor Badger]

You have the 7.5" Cooper 'S' brakes I trust, as 10" wheel won't fit over 8.4" discs (lots of threads on this).

A one-and-a-quarter carb is far too small for this. For a 1960's rally replica at minimum you need a pair of H4 or HS4 SU carbs (each 1.5").

Rally cars don't compete with roof racks fitted. The only reason the works used them was on events where there were several starting points and there was a need to get the cars to the start of the 'concentration' point where competition started, at which point the roof racks were removed as they do really slow the car down and increase fuel consumption. The wheels on the roof racks were then transferred to the service cars.

An A+ engine is not eligible for Historic Rallies, only the pre-A+.

If you want some detailed photos of my 1964 Cooper 'S' historic rally car PM me your personal email address.

 

 

The roof rack was fitted to the works minis for the Monte for one year in which you had to carry all your wheels during sections in/on the car. This was an attempt to curtail Stuart Turner, BMC and Dunlop with their 700 tyres for the works minis. 

[Cooperman]

The year they used the roof racks was 1966.

I did that rally in a 'works' NSU and we had a similar problem.

However, I do know that before the flat-out motoring started after the concentration runs the roof racks were removed. It would not have been practical to run competitively with them on as they knocked so much off the top speed and increased fuel consumption, especially for those of us running in Group 1, which the Minis were also doing. The Minis only had a single 5.5 gallon fuel tank as the twin tanks were not then homologated in Group 1.

There are a lot of photos of the Minis on that event on the special stages and the racks have been removed. Of course, all the works Minis were disqualified, as were the works Cortinas and Hillman Imps because of allegedly illegal lights.

[62S]

1967 was tyres & therefore roof rack year, 1966 was Group 1 year. Ever wondered why twin tanks became a standard fitment on the Cooper S?

[berthog021165]

In the works Rallies did they have bucket seats without the head rest like the cooper seats or with head rests?

 

Cooperman, you said you would send me some pics of your car

 

Brett

[Cooperman]

Photos are on their way.

 

If you are fitting 10" wheels, even reverse rim, it is unlikely that they will fit over anything larger than the 7.5" Cooper 'S' set-up which was what the 'works' used. You cannot simply use spacers as that is quite dangerous.

 

The seats used on 'works' rally Minis varied over the years. The driver's seat was normally low-back and the navigator's would have had a head rest on longer events to allow one crew member to get some sleep on road sections.

 

The 'works' cars had very different specifications from year to year & event to event. That's why Peter Browning's book 'The Works Minis' is so good. For example, on the 1966 Monte Carlo, the cars ran in Group 1, so they had standard seats with special seat covers, 3.5" x 10" wheels, helical gear-boxes, 2 spotlights (actually fog lights), single 5.5 gallon fuel tank. That can be compared to the group 2 cars which had 4.5" or 5" wide wheels, twin 5.5 gallon tanks, straight cut close ratio gearboxes, 4 or 5 additional spot/fog lights, perspex windows, twin 1.5" SU carbs (or even twin split Webers).

 

Early cars had no roll cages, but later ones had a single roll-hoop with a back stay to the rear parcel shelf. Some had swivel roof-lights which could be operated by the co-driver on special stages, but others did not.

 

There are so many variations.

[Ivor Badger]

Were the split Webers not fitted for 1968?

 

As Appendix J changed in 66. That only allow for 4 extra lamps, thus the roof lamp which was rarely fitted after 64, disappeared from then on?

 

The seat covers were brilliant by the way, marketed by Paddy Hopkirk.

Edited by Ivor Badger, 09 October 2013 - 10:05 PM.