90 replies to this topic

[bluecooper95]

Like the question above,

What's people's opinions on rubber donuts and springs??
What's the pros and cones of each unit?

Would interesting to see what people say :)

Cheers
Elliott

[filski]

 

there few topics on this already

 

http://www.theminifo...nversion/page-2

 

 

there few more just have search.

[Cooperman]

It is hard to beat the original rubber cone spring design. The rubber cone springs are true rising rate springs with no chance of them becoming coil-bound.

Coil springs are good for racing where a high rate can be used as the track is always very smooth. Rubber gives a low initial rate which increases in a non-linear way as suspension deflection increases and this is absolutely ideal.

[bluecooper95]

So a new set of rubber cones will be 10 x better than old ones. It's just bumpy roads are a pain, I look like a nodding dog driving the car

[MiniMonty]

The springs are OK (but very expensive unless you can fit them yourself) but they raise

the height of the car and this alters the handling. 

Personally (and giving a good nod to my wallet), I'd go for new rubber.

I change them every five years or so (cheapo job at a garage but actually not difficult to do yourself) and the ride is fine.

It's a Mini - it's not supposed to feel like a 70's Citroen.

 

Yes, bumpy roads are a pain - so just go faster and get them over with  

[mk1leg]

these are upgraded cones designed by the orignal man.......

rear...... http://www.minisport...nsion-cone.html

front..... http://www.minisport...nsion-cone.html

[80' Estate]

ive fitted the minitastic fastroad spings along with the gaz adjustable shocks (Which I believe should be a requirement when doing the swap to springs) from the short distance ive driven with them so far, they feel a lot better and my previous cones werent that bad. I would suggest not lowering the car too much as the springs could become dislodged when raising the car on a lift or taking it off of jumps  but I havent actually heard of this happening!

  

as far as price goes the full kit of ride height adjusters and springs is £254, just the cost of 4 cones is nearly £200 and you have to replace them every 5 years or so.  

[Tahiti Joe]

The springs are OK (but very expensive unless you can fit them yourself) but they raise

the height of the car and this alters the handling. 

Personally (and giving a good nod to my wallet), I'd go for new rubber.

I change them every five years or so (cheapo job at a garage but actually not difficult to do yourself) and the ride is fine.

It's a Mini - it's not supposed to feel like a 70's Citroen.

 

Yes, bumpy roads are a pain - so just go faster and get them over with  

 

I run rubber cones in my own cars, although i have a set of Minitastic springs that i have fitted in my Dads Cooper 'S'. Although the car isn't yet roadworthy, they don't make the car sit any higher than normal, they work on a Hi-Lo trumpet, so are just as adjustable as normal cones on Hi-Los would be.

They're also no different to fit than rubber cones, in fact they're slightly easier, as theres no compression needed to fit or remove.

You do definitely need better than standard shocks for them though, adjustables are good, although the Cooper 'S' is on Bilstein B36's. 

As already stated, they're not even that much more expensive than a good set of rubber replacements. And considering that they don't deteriorate like normal rubber do, could even be better value.

 

Sounds like a mega 'Pro-Springs' post from me, it's not so much, i'm just trying to state facts clearly from the experience i've had from fitting them. Looking forward to see how they perform on the road.

[bluecooper95]

Would be interesting to find out the difference.

There is little difference in price, so that's not a problem to argue about :)

Would the race versions be to much for the road??

I find the only problem with the mini scene is that people don't like going different directions to the norm. Hence why people get board and drop out. :/

I may try the springs. What the worst that's going to happen. I don't like them. :)

[Cooperman]

The race versions will have a very high initial spring rate, so will be entirely unsuitable for road use, as is the case with most race stuff.

Personally I can never see the point of changing the fantastic Mini rubber cone suspension.

If you want a really smooth ride, buy an S-Class Mercedes or 7-Series BMW  . A Mini, with such a short wheelbase and small available suspension travel will always be bumpy as there is simply not enough distance over which to take up the suspension loading over bumps. How can a coil spring be any better? If can be softer initially, but must be rising rate to avoid coil binding over bumps as that would be dangerous.

[firstforward]

The race versions will have a very high initial spring rate, so will be entirely unsuitable for road use, as is the case with most race stuff.

Personally I can never see the point of changing the fantastic Mini rubber cone suspension.

If you want a really smooth ride, buy an S-Class Mercedes or 7-Series BMW  . A Mini, with such a short wheelbase and small available suspension travel will always be bumpy as there is simply not enough distance over which to take up the suspension loading over bumps. How can a coil spring be any better? If can be softer initially, but must be rising rate to avoid coil binding over bumps as that would be dangerous.

 

Yeah Yeah Yeah same old splige from somebody that has never been in a mini with coils. I respect much of what you say Cooperman on many subjects but NOT coils springs.Please only post when you know the subject, you go on about coils binding bla bla bla, Its all supposition on your part, for which I have mentioned to you before.

[Cooperman]

 

The race versions will have a very high initial spring rate, so will be entirely unsuitable for road use, as is the case with most race stuff.

Personally I can never see the point of changing the fantastic Mini rubber cone suspension.

If you want a really smooth ride, buy an S-Class Mercedes or 7-Series BMW  . A Mini, with such a short wheelbase and small available suspension travel will always be bumpy as there is simply not enough distance over which to take up the suspension loading over bumps. How can a coil spring be any better? If can be softer initially, but must be rising rate to avoid coil binding over bumps as that would be dangerous.

 

Yeah Yeah Yeah same old splige from somebody that has never been in a mini with coils. I respect much of what you say Cooperman on many subjects but NOT coils springs.Please only post when you know the subject, you go on about coils binding bla bla bla, Its all supposition on your part, for which I have mentioned to you before.

 

 

This is not a nice way to reply to a post so please don't do it again.

If you want to explain the rising spring rate calculations in some detail, then please go ahead and do so.

Any, by the way, I have driven a couple of Minis on coil springs and on a bumpy road they were, shall we say, lacking for the engineering reasons I have given.

To prevent a coil spring from coil binding it is necessary to add a bigger bump stop, which is made of rubber, so at the limit of travel there is a rubber spring.

[Tamworthbay]

The race versions will have a very high initial spring rate, so will be entirely unsuitable for road use, as is the case with most race stuff.
Personally I can never see the point of changing the fantastic Mini rubber cone suspension.
If you want a really smooth ride, buy an S-Class Mercedes or 7-Series BMW  . A Mini, with such a short wheelbase and small available suspension travel will always be bumpy as there is simply not enough distance over which to take up the suspension loading over bumps. How can a coil spring be any better? If can be softer initially, but must be rising rate to avoid coil binding over bumps as that would be dangerous.

 
Yeah Yeah Yeah same old splige from somebody that has never been in a mini with coils. I respect much of what you say Cooperman on many subjects but NOT coils springs.Please only post when you know the subject, you go on about coils binding bla bla bla, Its all supposition on your part, for which I have mentioned to you before.

I have been in (I owned them) minis with coil springs and Coilovers. I completely agree with Cooperman on this. For the road there is nothing that comes close to rubber doughnuts. The only exception I would say is for people wanting a very soft ride. But then I would question the wisdom on anyone who bought a classic mini and then wants a very soft ride.

[rally1380]

 

The springs are OK (but very expensive unless you can fit them yourself) but they raise

the height of the car and this alters the handling. 

Personally (and giving a good nod to my wallet), I'd go for new rubber.

I change them every five years or so (cheapo job at a garage but actually not difficult to do yourself) and the ride is fine.

It's a Mini - it's not supposed to feel like a 70's Citroen.

 

Yes, bumpy roads are a pain - so just go faster and get them over with  

 

 And considering that they don't deteriorate like normal rubber do, could even be better value.

 

 

 

Saying they won't deteriorate isn't strictly true is it?

 

They are made of steel and will eventually rust....like all springs end up doing.  I realise they are coated in something, but this will eventually flake and allow water in.

[Cooperman]

I would be interested to see the design calculations for coil springs and rubber spring cones.

In particular, the total compression of both types of spring and the graph of compressed length v load, one against the other.

It is quite obvious that any Mini springs, except for race applications, have to be true 'rising-rate. So if the coils are supposed to be softer at initial deflection, then what are the rates as the coil spring compresses? The ultimate rate must be high as the original rubber cone spring to prevent damage to the suspension and loss of road-holding when the coil spring became fully compressed and 'coil-bound'.

The only way a coil spring could be an improvement would be if the available space for the spring could be significantly increased. Maybe a re-designed sub-frame and bulkhead cross member to allow a further 3 " of spring length might work, but that would be a big job and might involve an IVA test as the monocoque would have been cut. That way the ride height could be raised a bit and a lot more travel become available, subject to the ball joints not 'locking-out'.

Coil-overs can work, but there is a need for substantial strengthening of the inner front wings and rear damper turrets and even then there is no real likelihood of an improvement over rubber cone springs.

Edited by Cooperman, 01 November 2013 - 07:02 PM.