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Rubber Donuts Or Springs?


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#31 welshdan

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:41 PM


I quite like sheep ;)



 
Your name is not 'Baaaaaasil', is it ;D .

No, its naaaaaaaaaathan !!

#32 Cooperman

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:48 PM

 

 

 

I quite like sheep ;)



 
Your name is not 'Baaaaaasil', is it ?

No, its naaaaaaaaaathan !!

 

:D  :D  :D !



#33 mingy

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:52 PM

You are still being a sheep by going for coil springs. If that is your sole reason for not wanting rubber, then I would suggest air suspension or perhaps a magnetic 'spring' system. I am fairly sure that's never been done on a mini but would take a lot of doing.

I would go for leaf springs just to be annoying !!!!!!!!!

#34 sixtyeight

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:15 PM

I was in this conundrum not long ago.. really liked the idea of coil springs in place of rubber cones. But at the end of the day they are just a 'make-do' solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I went with new red dot rubber cones from minispares. can't wait to actually drive on them - never driven a mini with new cones before!!

 

If you want modern suspension, improve the shock mounts front and rear and install coil overs. 



#35 Cooperman

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:21 PM

I was in this conundrum not long ago.. really liked the idea of coil springs in place of rubber cones. But at the end of the day they are just a 'make-do' solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I went with new red dot rubber cones from minispares. can't wait to actually drive on them - never driven a mini with new cones before!!

 

If you want modern suspension, improve the shock mounts front and rear and install coil overs. 

 

If you want modern suspension, then buy a modern car rather than a classic car.

The ride harshness with a Mini is due to the short available suspension travel, the small wheels and the short wheelbase. It is what a Mini is all about.

To try to alter the basics of a true classic car is a bit like mixing ginger ale with a malt whisky.



#36 HarrysMini

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:30 AM

All these people who want to make their Mini more to modern specifications; Suspension, Sound proofing, Engine, Brakes, Water proofness...

 

It's obvious you don't like classic cars really and you may as well buy a Clio or something.



#37 grumpy2

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:25 AM

A year ago I posed a similar question and got very similar responses to the above. My old donuts had seriously deteoriated to the point when the car was sitting on the front bump stops so something needed doing.

After a long and thorough deliberation I decided to fit fast road springs and Gaz dampers which were really easy to fit once I'd got the old donuts and trumpets out

Initially I was delighted with them but as the year went on I became more disillusioned. I found the car had lost some of its character as it was so smooth, I didn't like the increased mechanical noise of the metal springs sitting on metal hilos connected to metal suspension arms. There was also a slightly noticeable increase in roll when taking corners quickly, not effecting road holding but not what you would expect in a mini

So about 2 months ago I decided to buy 4 new Avon donuts and fit them, only took a couple of hours to do each side so did the job in a few evenings after work

The car now feels like a mini again, it's bumpy even when the road isn't it corners as fast as it goes straight with no noticeable roll and is a little quieter.

So which do I think is better, well at the moment I'd say new donuts would be my preference but when I'm older (I'm already pretty old but not yet retired) and can't stand the bumpy ride anymore then I'd be happy to fit coils and accept the change in character to allow me to continue mini-ing in some comfort for many more years

All the above is my own opinion, based on my own subjective experiences. Hope they are useful to someone

Cheers

#38 HarrysMini

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:16 AM

A year ago I posed a similar question and got very similar responses to the above. My old donuts had seriously deteoriated to the point when the car was sitting on the front bump stops so something needed doing.

After a long and thorough deliberation I decided to fit fast road springs and Gaz dampers which were really easy to fit once I'd got the old donuts and trumpets out

Initially I was delighted with them but as the year went on I became more disillusioned. I found the car had lost some of its character as it was so smooth, I didn't like the increased mechanical noise of the metal springs sitting on metal hilos connected to metal suspension arms. There was also a slightly noticeable increase in roll when taking corners quickly, not effecting road holding but not what you would expect in a mini

So about 2 months ago I decided to buy 4 new Avon donuts and fit them, only took a couple of hours to do each side so did the job in a few evenings after work

The car now feels like a mini again, it's bumpy even when the road isn't it corners as fast as it goes straight with no noticeable roll and is a little quieter.

So which do I think is better, well at the moment I'd say new donuts would be my preference but when I'm older (I'm already pretty old but not yet retired) and can't stand the bumpy ride anymore then I'd be happy to fit coils and accept the change in character to allow me to continue mini-ing in some comfort for many more years

All the above is my own opinion, based on my own subjective experiences. Hope they are useful to someone

Cheers

Listen to this. This is what you need, someone who has actually lived with both and can do a proper comparison between the two!



#39 bluecooper95

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:29 AM

Don't get me wrong I love the way my car handles.

I don't mind the fact that its a classic car and has its quirks. Although if started when I want it to would be great.

The bumpy ride is great. It has it benefits, but can be distracting ;)

It's that passengers don't like the ride that much. Used to fancy modern cars.

So what you guys are saying, have coil springs is not something to bring up in a pub convocation ;)

#40 Tamworthbay

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:30 AM

Don't get me wrong I love the way my car handles.
I don't mind the fact that its a classic car and has its quirks. Although if started when I want it to would be great.
The bumpy ride is great. It has it benefits, but can be distracting ;)
It's that passengers don't like the ride that much. Used to fancy modern cars.
So what you guys are saying, have coil springs is not something to bring up in a pub convocation ;)

You need to change your friends not your springs ;-)

#41 firstforward

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:20 AM

 

 

The race versions will have a very high initial spring rate, so will be entirely unsuitable for road use, as is the case with most race stuff.

Personally I can never see the point of changing the fantastic Mini rubber cone suspension.

If you want a really smooth ride, buy an S-Class Mercedes or 7-Series BMW ;D . A Mini, with such a short wheelbase and small available suspension travel will always be bumpy as there is simply not enough distance over which to take up the suspension loading over bumps. How can a coil spring be any better? If can be softer initially, but must be rising rate to avoid coil binding over bumps as that would be dangerous.

 

Yeah Yeah Yeah same old splige from somebody that has never been in a mini with coils. I respect much of what you say Cooperman on many subjects but NOT coils springs.Please only post when you know the subject, you go on about coils binding bla bla bla, Its all supposition on your part, for which I have mentioned to you before.

 

 

This is not a nice way to reply to a post so please don't do it again.

If you want to explain the rising spring rate calculations in some detail, then please go ahead and do so.

Any, by the way, I have driven a couple of Minis on coil springs and on a bumpy road they were, shall we say, lacking for the engineering reasons I have given.

To prevent a coil spring from coil binding it is necessary to add a bigger bump stop, which is made of rubber, so at the limit of travel there is a rubber spring.

 

 

Blimey you are still posting misinformation on this subject.  First off the coil springs do not coil bind as you keep posting here and elsewhere. You do not need to fit larger bump stops indeed the suppliers recommend a small amount of the bump stop "can" be removed from later cars to allow longer travel of the suspension. The bump stop is there for a reason to arrest the suspension travel in the event of excessive undulation in a road surface which is exactly the same as with rubber cones. You have stated above the coil springs need to have the same ultimate rate as cones to prevent damage to the suspension. What are you talking about? Will the next thing you will be suggesting cone suspension never hit a bump stop???

 

If you really want a smooth ride buy an S Class BMW, well no actually I do not want an S Class just a mini with a better than standard ride ( so did BMC which is why they tried to replace the cones at a first opportunity with hydrolastic, but that is another story). Using your logic on that point if a mini has bad headlamps go buy a modern car with better lights, but if I remember correctly you actually fit 100/80 Watt headlamps to your mini? or if you want a fast car go buy from the choice of many modern cars but you are giving good advice on this forum on how to alter mini engines to go faster, so taking your train of thought forward why not improve the suspension. Ok not everybody will have the same opinion on what is better, clearly you can have a road test on any modern car and many opinions as to its ride will be subjective and as a result different. 

 

You may be a purist on the point of mini suspension, that I can understand but do not give out wrong incorrect advice.

 

To the OP, coils still crash somewhat on recessed manhole covers, but IMO there is a big gain to be had in many other areas to improve over cones. You will never achieve a really comfortable ride due to the limitations on the suspension design but improve it you can. There was a video on the net all about the designing and manufacture of the coils that did rising rate comparisons to the cones, from memory cones were well ahead on that point but only up to a certain time frame of cones being fitted as the cones initial rising rate dramatically drops off when fitted to a car I think it was around the 9 month mark it started to fall off dramatically whereby coils caught up somewhat. On the point of coils binding that could happen if you fitted them with the HiLows adjusted so the car sat so very high up but it would have to be so high up it would look stupid and not as per the fitting instructions, and if you want coils with a lowered car that could cause the rear springs to come loose (there is a workaround to that if you really wanted) so basically you have to have the car set up as per standard height or slightly lower. Best bet is to try a car with them fitted,



#42 HarrysMini

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:03 AM

Can you show me an S class BMW? Id like to see one of these

#43 bluecooper95

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:33 PM

Mercedes s class maybe ;)

So when people update there a series engine for more power, upgrade brakes for better stopping distances, fit new interior because they don't like the old one, weld the car back together because of rust. What you are saying here is there is no point, just get a modern car.

Finally someone who has experienced both coils and cones. Thank you for the detailed opinion. Some much better than people speaking out of their ****

#44 jmmini

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:45 PM

They're good for comfort but not handling

#45 Tamworthbay

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:08 PM

Mercedes s class maybe ;)
So when people update there a series engine for more power, upgrade brakes for better stopping distances, fit new interior because they don't like the old one, weld the car back together because of rust. What you are saying here is there is no point, just get a modern car.
Finally someone who has experienced both coils and cones. Thank you for the detailed opinion. Some much better than people speaking out of their ****

Some people are speaking from years of experience, in the case of Cooperman it is more years driving and RACING minis than I (and I guess you) have been alive. His opinions aren't based on hearsay they are based on scientific fact. My opinions are based on personal experience and I wouldn't use coils again (they were on the car when I bought it). If you wish to spend money on whatever that is up to you, but it is worth looking at who is saying what before you so rashly (and rudely) suggest people are talking out of wherever. It is easy to look at a video saying 'buy this its great' but who put that video up there? Yup, the people flogging the stuff. Hardly an impartial view of things.




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