76 replies to this topic

[stretch tech]

hi all,

 

sorry i haven't replied to this thread, been manic at work.

 

i picked up my engine the other day and so i'll measure up and see what my options are (what i get chance !)

 

in other news: i had some more training yesterday... i know have access to zimmer-group shock absorbers 

 

Rhys

[Spider]

Giday all!

 

First post here.

 

I found this interesting thread while doing a Google Search for Transfer Gears - as always, I'm after what's not generally available!

 

Stetch Tech, it's awesome guys like you are thinking outside the square, go for it mate, I'm watching on with interest. Don't be put off by what some may say nor if it doesn't work out at first. Cricky, I recon for every idea I've had work, I've had probably 3 that didn't! But that's how we all learn, there's no stuff ups, only learning experiences, just some take longer and more money than they should!

 

It has been done before though. A local Racer, Warwick Augustin, did this conversion many years ago. I'm not in contact with Warwick these days, but it did take him a long time to sort it and get it working. I don't know what issues Warwick had or what the end result used, nor do I know why he was persisting with this avenue, so sorry not a lot of help!  I have somewhere a little info on what he did, I've been looking on and off the past few days to for that info, I'll be sure to come back here when it's found.

 

Didn't the Austin and Morris 1800's use something like this? It may have only been on the manuals or autos, not really sure there, but one of them did.

 

My interest with this set up is a change of ratio with the transfer gears, but not wanting to go to straight cuts. I have of couse found the 'economy' gear sets but I am actually wanting to go the other way.

[nicklouse]

Interesting read, I remember the talk about chain drive from the late 80s early 90s where there was meant to be a guy over hill in the Greenfield area running one. We could never find out anything as there was no internet back then. And people did not talk much about this type of stuff.

Another engine gearbox that was chain drive (triplex) was the Saab 9000 2 and 2.2L loads of power.

[mikespicooper]

This might be the by far the best idea I've seen for so long!!!!!!

Driving the gearbox via a chain would be amazing.....but.....I have read that you are concerned about the primary gear.....when you aplly the clutch actually you seperate the plate from the flywheel so the primary gear rotates on the crankshaft tail freely and you have a rotating speed difference between the engine speed and the primary gear speed as it is driven by the gearbox at this instant of time....so when you engage the clutch so the car will start moving the primary gear rotates along with the crankshaft as a solid shaft because you have engaged the clutch....my statement is that you will not need to modify the primary gear to fit a bearing as for a long time of driving period you have the clutch engaged and the primary gear rotates at the same speed as the crankshaft and also i thing by tensioning the chain will help to elliminate excess loading under rotation and thats the trick that a tensioner does timing chains driving the camshafts on a car do not wear the the crank bearings or any bushings on the cams or any bearing seats on the cams of an engine because of tension....also std timing chains on a mini rotating at 5000-8500 rpm do not fail that easy and they are as simple as a bicycle chain so go ahead and DO IT WE ARE WAITING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!

Edited by mikespicooper, 06 November 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Gremlin]

This might be the by far the best idea I've seen for so long!!!!!!
Driving the gearbox via a chain would be amazing.....but.....I have read that you are concerned about the primary gear.....when you aplly the clutch actually you seperate the plate from the flywheel so the primary gear rotates on the crankshaft tail freely and you have a rotating speed difference between the engine speed and the primary gear speed as it is driven by the gearbox at this instant of time....so when you engage the clutch so the car will start moving the primary gear rotates along with the crankshaft as a solid shaft because you have engaged the clutch....my statement is that you will not need to modify the primary gear to fit a bearing as for a long time of driving period you have the clutch engaged and the primary gear rotates at the same speed as the crankshaft and also i thing by tensioning the chain will help to elliminate excess loading under rotation and thats the trick that a tensioner does timing chains driving the camshafts on a car do not wear the the crank bearings or any bushings on the cams or any bearing seats on the cams of an engine because of tension....also std timing chains on a mini rotating at 5000-8500 rpm do not fail that easy and they are as simple as a bicycle chain so go ahead and DO IT WE ARE WAITING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!

Std timing chains on a mini are not being asked to drive 600-700kg when you dump the clutch, or asked to drive the engine when you lift off the throttle

[Dusky]

Maybe I'm forgetting something, but aren't they using chains on the bike engine setups?

[mikespicooper]

BMW X3 and X5 use a chain drive for the transfer box to drive the wheels!

[mikespicooper]

This might be the by far the best idea I've seen for so long!!!!!!
Driving the gearbox via a chain would be amazing.....but.....I have read that you are
concerned about the primary gear.....when you aplly the clutch actually you seperate the plate
from the flywheel so the primary gear rotates on
the crankshaft tail freely and you have a rotating
speed difference between the engine speed and
the primary gear speed as it is driven by the
gearbox at this instant of time....so when you engage the clutch so the car will start moving th
e primary gear rotates along with the crankshaft
as a solid shaft because you have engaged the clutch....my statement is that you will not need to
modify the primary gear to fit a bearing as for a
long time of driving period you have the clutch engaged and the primary gear rotates at the same speed as the crankshaft and also i thing by tensioning the chain will help to elliminate excess loading under rotation and thats the trick that a tensioner does timing chains driving the camshafts on a car do not wear the the crank bearings or any bushings on the cams or any bearing seats on the cams of an engine because of tension....also std timing chains on a mini rotating at 5000-8500 rpm do not fail that easy and they are as simple as a bicycle chain so go ahead and DO IT WE ARE WAITING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!

Std timing chains on a mini are not being asked to drive 600-700kg when you dump the clutch, or asked to drive the engine when you lift off the throttle

I said for rhe timing chain as an example only.....

Edited by mikespicooper, 06 November 2014 - 04:17 PM.

[Spider]

BMW X3 and X5 use a chain drive for the transfer box to drive the wheels!

 

Good point, in fact most 4WD's that have an old school style transfer box do.

[Gremlin]

This might be the by far the best idea I've seen for so long!!!!!!
Driving the gearbox via a chain would be amazing.....but.....I have read that you are
concerned about the primary gear.....when you aplly the clutch actually you seperate the plate
from the flywheel so the primary gear rotates on
the crankshaft tail freely and you have a rotating
speed difference between the engine speed and
the primary gear speed as it is driven by the
gearbox at this instant of time....so when you engage the clutch so the car will start moving th
e primary gear rotates along with the crankshaft
as a solid shaft because you have engaged the clutch....my statement is that you will not need to
modify the primary gear to fit a bearing as for a
long time of driving period you have the clutch engaged and the primary gear rotates at the same speed as the crankshaft and also i thing by tensioning the chain will help to elliminate excess loading under rotation and thats the trick that a tensioner does timing chains driving the camshafts on a car do not wear the the crank bearings or any bushings on the cams or any bearing seats on the cams of an engine because of tension....also std timing chains on a mini rotating at 5000-8500 rpm do not fail that easy and they are as simple as a bicycle chain so go ahead and DO IT WE ARE WAITING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!

Std timing chains on a mini are not being asked to drive 600-700kg when you dump the clutch, or asked to drive the engine when you lift off the throttle

I said for rhe timing chain as an example only.....

Wasn't meant to come out like that, sorry, I was just trying to say thats one of he main problems - the tension of the chain

[ChopperHarris]

Have not read all the posts...has anyone mentioned that the drop gear changes the direction of the gearbox to engine? Just saying like! The drop gear was introduced when they had to turn the engine round due to carb icing was one reason I believe

[Gremlin]

Changes direction then back again as the idler is driving the 1st motion gear, the primary and 1st motion spin the same way

[mikespicooper]

 

 

 

This might be the by far the best idea I've seen for so long!!!!!!
Driving the gearbox via a chain would be amazing.....but.....I have read that you are
concerned about the primary gear.....when you aplly the clutch actually you seperate the plate
from the flywheel so the primary gear rotates on
the crankshaft tail freely and you have a rotating
speed difference between the engine speed and
the primary gear speed as it is driven by the
gearbox at this instant of time....so when you engage the clutch so the car will start moving th
e primary gear rotates along with the crankshaft
as a solid shaft because you have engaged the clutch....my statement is that you will not need to
modify the primary gear to fit a bearing as for a
long time of driving period you have the clutch engaged and the primary gear rotates at the same speed as the crankshaft and also i thing by tensioning the chain will help to elliminate excess loading under rotation and thats the trick that a tensioner does timing chains driving the camshafts on a car do not wear the the crank bearings or any bushings on the cams or any bearing seats on the cams of an engine because of tension....also std timing chains on a mini rotating at 5000-8500 rpm do not fail that easy and they are as simple as a bicycle chain so go ahead and DO IT WE ARE WAITING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!

Std timing chains on a mini are not being asked to drive 600-700kg when you dump the clutch, or asked to drive the engine when you lift off the throttle

I said for rhe timing chain as an example only.....

Wasn't meant to come out like that, sorry, I was just trying to say thats one of he main problems - the tension of the chain

 

Tension won't wear anything in my opinion because the assembly runs in engine oil but yes it is critical.. too much will wear it out or less will make the chain to jump around or even break!

[M30]

As far as a tensioner goes, would it not work if you had 2 curved tensioners that were fixed to a back plate with one or both being adjustable, but where the whole assembly could float from one side to the other allowing one of the chain runs to be perfectly straight between the gears when under load, and moving across to the other side when on the overrun ?? Or possibly an idler running on the outside of the chain on the overrun side. Surely the loads on overrun are a lot less than when under power/load ??

 

Stu

[greenwheels]

 The drop gear was introduced when they had to turn the engine round due to carb icing was one reason I believe

I've read somewhere that carb icing was not a major problem - it was more to do with the inertia loads on the two big gears being a problem.