45 replies to this topic

[tiger99]

This was debated here ar great length a few weeks ago, and it is abundantly clear that a hydraulic handbrake is NEVER legal for road use, and is unsafe. It is also not as easy as some people, clearly with no proper knowledge of hydraulics, seem to imagine, to incorporate a hydraulic handbrake into the existing rear brake system.

 

Just don't bother trying it, the extreme cost and efort required will only guarantee an MOT failure, and prosecution if Plod stop you for a check of the vehicle, as well as virtually guaranteeing disaster the first time that you park for any length of time on a steep hill.

 

The standard handbrake system, like all such systems, has been designed to incorporate sufficient stored energy, in the stretch of the cables, within their elastic and fatigue limits, to keep the brakes on despite temperature changes. That is a legal requirement. How would you achieve it in a hydraulic system?

 

The first fundamental rule of engineering, violated only by idiots, is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The standard handbrake system is not broke, so don't be an idiot and try redesigning it. Just restore it to its proper condition.

[Tamworthbay]

This was debated here ar great length a few weeks ago, and it is abundantly clear that a hydraulic handbrake is NEVER legal for road use, and is unsafe. It is also not as easy as some people, clearly with no proper knowledge of hydraulics, seem to imagine, to incorporate a hydraulic handbrake into the existing rear brake system.
 
Just don't bother trying it, the extreme cost and efort required will only guarantee an MOT failure, and prosecution if Plod stop you for a check of the vehicle, as well as virtually guaranteeing disaster the first time that you park for any length of time on a steep hill.
 
The standard handbrake system, like all such systems, has been designed to incorporate sufficient stored energy, in the stretch of the cables, within their elastic and fatigue limits, to keep the brakes on despite temperature changes. That is a legal requirement. How would you achieve it in a hydraulic system?
 
The first fundamental rule of engineering, violated only by idiots, is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The standard handbrake system is not broke, so don't be an idiot and try redesigning it. Just restore it to its proper condition.

That last paragraph is laughable. If people had not fixed things that weren't broke we would still be living in the Stone Age (or riding hardly ablesons). British engineering suffered from this negative view to its great cost from the 50s to the 70s and saw the complete demise of the motorcycle industry and near complete demise of the car industry because of it. The fundamental rule of engineering is exactly the opposite. If it ain't broke, fix it anyway.

[Cooperman]

Have to agree with 'Tiger' on this. You should never leave a hydraulic system 'pressured', so with a hydraulic handbrake it would need to be 'off' when parked.

 

The reason for fitting a hydraulic handbrake is purely for handbrake turns, so for autotests it would be ideal. It can be difficult to get the handbrake to work well on dry tarmac rally stages with modern 'sticky' tyres, but I've found that if the handbrake linkage is well adjusted and in good condition it can be fine. I used a slightly larger clevis pin through the handbrake mechanism inside the rear drum and I reamed out the larger hole to a close tolerance and greased it. The cables must also be free to move through the various turn points in the cable run and the quadrants on the radius arms must be lubricated and operate freely.

 

In some rallies, such as the historic event s on which Minis tend to be competitive, hydraulic handbrakes are not allowed as they were not homologated on the standard car and are not 'period modifications'. A rally car must, of course, also be road legal and will be scrutineered at the start of each event, so no point in fitting one for historic rallying or even for modern rallying if a cable handbrake is not also fitted in order to obtain an MoT and/or to retain road legality.

[sonikk4]

Let me make this very clear, if you decide to make a comment then please keep it polite, there is no need to call somebody an idiot or infer they are an idiot. If there are more comments made like this then warning points will be issued.

 

By all means reply with information that is factual and correct but do not make it condescending or belittling. Members come on here wanting information or answers to a question and they may have ideas that are not really ideal.

 

Point them in the right direction politely.

[miniboy94]

by the sound of it then guys hydraulic isnt the way forward and i no what you mean about leaving it pressured up its how thing go wrong with them that why i was going to leave cable one on there to for this reason the hydralic one was only really going to be used for rally's? but looking into how i would even plum it in sound to much effort for me iv got anther to do to get it to london to brighten rally lol but thank you any way guys do appresate the feedback and iv had all new shoes drums cables slave cycliners braiderd hose's and everything what iv fitted my self iv done everything right got a really good solid pedal but my hand brake just dosnt seem to hold very well only time it works is when it is icey on the road's or on gravel ? any surgetions on what to do next to make it work ? thank for options thought :) and haha thanks bungle what sort of tape is it ;) ?

Edited by miniboy94, 13 February 2014 - 08:10 PM.

[Cooperman]

You need to make sure the linkage is in good condition and properly greased. The linkage inside the drums must be good and there should be no wear in the clevis pin joining the two parts inside the drum.

Is this a rally car on which you are trying to get it to handbrake turn? The problem is modern sticky tyres. It was never a problem with the old 145 section tyres.

One thing you could do would be to make the handbrake lever a bit longer for added mechanical advantage, make it 'fly-off' and modify the locking rod and end button to suit the added length. Make sure the handbrake mounting structure is strongly welded to the body as they can easily break off with a longer handbrake lever.

[miniboy94]

i replaced the lot like im taking the drums back of this weekend so il make sure there really well greased up like and yes iv turned it from a daily run about to a rally car but it ovyesly had to pass a mot still but it will only be used for rally's once it is finished and iv tryed to different sets of tyres and wheel's i had soft compoud tyres whitch i new wernt going to slide so i got rid and got some hard compound falkens tyre's whitch are a little better but still want lock up and i never fort of a longer hand brake for added leaverige thats genius you my friend need to be a engineer lol and i seen fly off kits or the hole hand brake but not sure what to or whitch is easyer ? to convert my self or by out of the box ? and i can get my mate to weld it to the body for me as he ows me a few favours for sorting his mini out thanks cooperman

[Cooperman]

I always use a fly-off and I do agree that with modern tyres they are so sticky that it can be difficult to handbrake turn on smooth dry tarmac. It is surprising how hard you can pull the handbrake when rallying and you need to get around a particularly tight junction in a hurry  .

[miniboy94]

il go fly off then il buy one strait out of the box not sure where from but il find one :) lol and yes sticky tyres i do love in summer as i have a lot of one way country roads near me so they become my best friend but winter when it s a little icy the winter wheels and tyre come out like from my first mini hopfully this one will do better when the snow come than my last one

[Down&Out]

I mean this with the greatest respect in the world, but could you pleaaaaaase write in properly formatted english?

Its actually in the forum rules and regulations that you should write in English. I would never expect A* level grammar because even my posts aren't like that, but i'm finding your posts incredibly hard work to read and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

[RedRallyMini]

One thing you could do would be to make the handbrake lever a bit longer for added mechanical advantage, make it 'fly-off' and modify the locking rod and end button to suit the added length. Make sure the handbrake mounting structure is strongly welded to the body as they can easily break off with a longer handbrake lever.

 

I've been planning on doing this for a while now, the only thing that stops me doing this is the fact that I apparently forgot how to weld... (I used to be like a pro, now I burn holes everywhere...)

 

My idea is to make a handbrake grip out of a piece of steel tube and weld another piece of tube perpendicular on top of it and fasten it to the handbrake with a few bolts. (is this understandable....?)

Edited by RedRallyMini, 13 February 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[Cooperman]

Yes, that sounds good and effective.

I do remember with my first 998 Cooper, in 1964, I did an autotest and when I handbraked it the entire handbrake mounting pulled off the body! I had to weld it all back on with some additional plating. In those days it was all gas welding and I don't think I could gas weld these days.

[RedRallyMini]

Yes, that sounds good and effective.

I do remember with my first 998 Cooper, in 1964, I did an autotest and when I handbraked it the entire handbrake mounting pulled off the body! I had to weld it all back on with some additional plating. In those days it was all gas welding and I don't think I could gas weld these days.

 

My handbrake mounting has already been reinforced a bit, so that won't be a problem, I hope...

 

I've never been good at gas welding... but I used to be very good at TIG (even aluminium ;) ), MIG/MAG and SMAW but the last time I welded was 4 years ago, that's when I graduated from secondary school... and now that I've bought a small arc welder, I found out that I really suck at it now...

[Cooperman]

I can arc weld, but I have a big Miller MIG welder and since most of my welding is on classic cars that is fine. I do some arc at my gliding club on the ground equipment, but I prefer MIG really.

Next project is a 1971 MGB-GT full restoration. That is after the 850 Mini shell is completed.

[mrducati]

Another cheap and easy solution would be to drill a hole thru the handbrake lever and the handbrake knob while having the knob depressed and insert a pin thru the hole when you are out to play. So you can just remove the pin when needed.