31 replies to this topic

[661]

Thanks, that's very useful

[Zach P-D]

I don't understand why people lower mini's, they are low enough as it is haha. To get to my house, I have to take a special line so that I don't scrape the lane with the back end on standard suspension. 

[Dusky]

Sorry for the thread revival, but I'm wondering about something :

 

On later cars, is the ideal ride height standard, or what used to be standard before 1984 ( when they introduced 12 inch wheels and started fitting spacered knuckle joints)?

[Cooperman]

On cars with 13" wheels it is a good idea to raise the ride height slightly. That enables the suspension to have slightly longer travel to make up for the loss of tyre sidewall depth on the lower profile tyres. Then just fit adjustable dampers and set them a bit softer to ensure the wheels stay in better contact with the road surface.

[Spider]

On the early cars, standard height was when the drive shafts are parallel with the roadway and the back is almost an inch over that. Later cars, they raised them by 3/4" on the front and a similar amount on the rear. I've found for road going Minis, this to be quite 'sensible' (if I can use that term around here).

[CobraV8]

As many will know, I've been involved with the classic Mini for around 53 years. I driven them wearing flared trousers, paisley-pattern shirt-tie combinations, dinner suits, winkle-picker shoes, Cuban heel boots, leather jackets, etc. I've travelled in them with girls in long dresses, mini-skirts, hot pants, flared 'flower-power' dresses (in 1967!), and so on. In fact, a 'dedicated follower of fashion' - er, maybe.
However, as an engineer, I cannot see the reason for wanting to lower a superb classic car to the point at which it becomes almost un-useable. This applies to all classics, not just Minis. It seems the VW idiots have brought stupidity to a new level, as Clive illustrates.
The classic Mini is just that because, when introduced, it brought a completely new level of interior space compared to external dimensions, incredible road-holding, good overall handling, independent suspension, neat & functional styling and with its unique rubber-cone suspension a new level of small car ride and comfort. So how can following a styling trend of lowering it until it no longer performs properly and as intended be worth doing?
I'm sure someone will enlighten me, and a lot of others like Clive, as to what the advantages of this excessive lowering actually are. It makes the car less safe, have poorer road-holding on normal roads, it spoils the handling and general feel and it makes it very uncomfortable due to the need for stiff dampers to try to stop it bottoming out on bumps. It ruins the original performance. 
How is that any sort of improvement? To me it just f***s-up a beautifully engineered classic car. It almost makes me want to turn to MGB's where the owners like to keep them original to celebrate another true classic.
Yes, I know "it's your car and you can do as you like with it", but that doesn't make true classic car enthusiasts like or respect it, in the same way as if you owned a classic painting like the Mona Lisa you could draw a Hitler moustache on it, or if you owned a Supermarine Spitfire you could paint it yellow with purple spots. You could always buy a beautiful piece of Chippendale furniture and paint it white using Dulux gloss paint as a 'modification'.
It's sacrilege really.

I respect Cooprmans experience. I would add however that a standard mini was setup with the idea of 4 passengers and some luggage to be carried, handle judder bars, driveways and in older days dirt roads. In my case my mini is only used for fun, generally only me in it, sealed open roads. My car has been set up for racing, and has tubbed rear arches and wider than standard wheels, and is lowered. It definitely sticks to the road better than a standard height mini with standard tyres, but... If you lowered it more to the point it bottoms out or you have to slow down because it will hit things it will obviously get worse.

Ever car setup is a compromise for something. Load carrying capacity, handling or comfort.

[paulrockliffe]

Minor bump..... I measured the floor to bottom of cill distances on my Minus just now as the rear looks high.  The front was exactly the width of my hand plus a 2" block of wood, the rear was a 2" block of wood, the width of my hand and then an inch of daylight.  Based on these precise measurements, is my ride-height about right?  The front looks about right, but the rear looks quite high, and is an inch higher at the cill.  I have high-los fitted, so the suspension may not be standard ride height.

 

Thanks!

[nicklouse]

Note the measurements is not to the floor.

Edited by nicklouse, 30 October 2016 - 09:45 PM.

[paulrockliffe]

Thanks, so it looks like the cill should be level with no rake.

I can't see anything that tells you how far below the axles the datum line is though, what am I missing?

[nicklouse]

Some reading
http://www.calverst....technical-info/

[minifreek1]

Mine isn't on adjusters anymore as they gave a horrible 'feel' to the way the car handles....

 

Mine is on stock trumpets with the spring coils instead of the rubber cones, only because at the time I couldn't afford the rubber cones..

 

Mine has a slight rake to the front ... it now feels perfectly planted on the twisties and on motorways too .... but better on the twisties :)

[nicklouse]

Mine isn't on adjusters anymore as they gave a horrible 'feel' to the way the car handles....

 

 

most likely unbalanced corner weights.

[minifreek1]

What corner weights....?

[Alice Dooper]

On cars with 13" wheels it is a good idea to raise the ride height slightly. That enables the suspension to have slightly longer travel to make up for the loss of tyre sidewall depth on the lower profile tyres. Then just fit adjustable dampers and set them a bit softer to ensure the wheels stay in better contact with the road surface.

I've just fitted Minitastic springs to replace cones. I know there will be a lot of goals out there, but try driving a spring setup first!!

We ended up raising the ride height slightly and have GAZ dampers set fairly soft and it totally transformed the ride. The car was rebuilt up for enjoying a good long driving session but not for a hammering round the roads so we haven't explored the limits of her very much. Even so, it's as comfortable as our Bini on run flat tyres, feels like it still has the same handling and roadholding.

I'd deffinately second what Cooperman says about ride height on 13" wheels. I almost thought we had built up an off road Mini when we were experimenting with the ride height at one stage. We don't brace ourselves for road bumps any more and aren't as petrified of potholes. Though the 13" wheels tramlines just as badly.

[carbon]

What corner weights....?

 

What Nick probably means is getting the weight distribution between the wheels correct. If set up right the weight distribution will be same for left wheels and right wheels on front, and also the same for left wheels and right wheels at rear.

 

So for a lightweight mini and equally set up corner weights with no driver you might have:

- front left = 180 kg

- front right = 180 kg

- rear left = 85 kg

- rear right = 85 kg

Total weight = 185 + 185 + 85 + 85 = 530kg

 

If instead with the same car you measured the following corner weights:

- front left = 150 kg

- front right = 210 kg

- rear left = 95 kg

- rear right = 75 kg

Total weight = 150 + 210 + 95 + 75 = still same 530kg. But the weight is no longer evenly distributed and the handling would be affected.

Edited by carbon, 31 October 2016 - 07:24 PM.