100 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

The problem for experienced drivers is that the setting of speed limits is very arbitrary and does not always tie in with the actual road conditions. Illogical limits reduce the respect drivers have for them as a whole with the result that many tend to treat them as a guide rather than a limit, which may or may not be helpful.

As someone who used to drive around 35000 miles per annum in this country and abroad, mainly in Europe and the USA, I tend to drive to what I can see rather than a number on a pole and so far that has worked. I did have a road accident, but that was in February 1973 and I did get 3 points for 'speeding' at 11-30 pm in 1989 on a dual carriageway near Norwich. When working I used to cruise at 85 to 90, but that was before electronic enforcement really got going. In Germany I would regularly cruise to Koln at 125 mph to 130 mph (Porsche 911 and/or BMW 735) back in the '80's. I have actually legally driven at 140 mph on the M1.The last time I did this was the night before the 70 limit was introduced in 1965.

Speed does not kill. What kills is inappropriate driving and this can be failure to concentrate, misjudging the road surface, misjudging the severity of a corner, failure to know one's own personal limits, failure to do on-going risk assessment all the time, etc. It is virtually never, ever, due simply to driving at over the posted speed limit.

I senior police officer friend says that the theory is that a really capable driver will be safe at all times even if there were no speed limits at all as he/she would drive safely anyway.

The obsession with 'speed kills' is something generated by those who really have no knowledge of driver behaviour or vehicle dynamics.

[Carlos W]

The problem for experienced drivers is that the setting of speed limits is very arbitrary and does not always tie in with the actual road conditions. Illogical limits reduce the respect drivers have for them as a whole with the result that many tend to treat them as a guide rather than a limit, which may or may not be helpful.
As someone who used to drive around 35000 miles per annum in this country and abroad, mainly in Europe and the USA, I tend to drive to what I can see rather than a number on a pole and so far that has worked. I did have a road accident, but that was in February 1973 and I did get 3 points for 'speeding' at 11-30 pm in 1989 on a dual carriageway near Norwich. When working I used to cruise at 85 to 90, but that was before electronic enforcement really got going. In Germany I would regularly cruise to Koln at 125 mph to 130 mph (Porsche 911 and/or BMW 735) back in the '80's. I have actually legally driven at 140 mph on the M1.The last time I did this was the night before the 70 limit was introduced in 1965.
Speed does not kill. What kills is inappropriate driving and this can be failure to concentrate, misjudging the road surface, misjudging the severity of a corner, failure to know one's own personal limits, failure to do on-going risk assessment all the time, etc. It is virtually never, ever, due simply to driving at over the posted speed limit.
I senior police officer friend says that the theory is that a really capable driver will be safe at all times even if there were no speed limits at all as he/she would drive safely anyway.
The obsession with 'speed kills' is something generated by those who really have no knowledge of driver behaviour or vehicle dynamics.

The problem is, the law is catering for the person who sees a car as a method of travelling from A-B, and has no real interest in driving. They probably only half concentrate on it.

My brother in law is a perfect example. The other week his fiesta expired as the oil filter burst. When I asked him when it was last serviced he informed me it was mot'd in July, is that not the same thing?

I'm not saying the law is right or wrong but it is what it is.

[Cooperman]

In aviation we have a saying; 'Laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'.

So with driving those who lack experience may be helped by total adherence to posted speed limits, whilst those with experience and aptitude will simply be guided by them.

[adam_93rio]

Sitting in the middle lane can earn you a fine and points now though

[Ben_O]

In aviation we have a saying; 'Laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'.

So with driving those who lack experience may be helped by total adherence to posted speed limits, whilst those with experience and aptitude will simply be guided by them.

I don't get that....

 

The law is in place for everyone to stick to.

 

70mph on a motorway is the legal limit and should not be exceeded whether you are 17 or 70

[Carlos W]

In aviation we have a saying; 'Laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'.
So with driving those who lack experience may be helped by total adherence to posted speed limits, whilst those with experience and aptitude will simply be guided by them.

My brother in law is a fool. A poor fool now he's paid for a new engine in his fiesta. His foolish wife's car is 30k overdue having its timing belt replaced. Some people just don't listen

[adam_93rio]

In driving we have traffic police

[Cooperman]

 

In aviation we have a saying; 'Laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'.

So with driving those who lack experience may be helped by total adherence to posted speed limits, whilst those with experience and aptitude will simply be guided by them.

I don't get that....

 

The law is in place for everyone to stick to.

 

70mph on a motorway is the legal limit and should not be exceeded whether you are 17 or 70

 

 

That may well be the case, but really how many abide by the often poorly & inappropriate set limits we have. How many observe every law of the land? Do you? I know I don't.

And look how many on here talk about building 'fast road cars'. Those cars will not be driven at the speed limit all the time, despite what may be said on here. Even a standard 850 Mini can be driven at the NSL in this country, but here we talk about 'fast road' Minis (in practice 'not quite so slow Minis), so by definition they will be driven at over the NSL. That's the reality, whether we like it or not. There is a lot of hypocracy about speed limits.

But everyone can do as they please.

[Cooperman]

In driving we have traffic police

In aviation we have Air Traffic Control with surveillance radar and a formal reporting system. When a police helicopter infringed our airspace in a dangerous manner, despite their denying it, the ATC radar trace proved their incursion. Police pilot lied to the inquiry and thus lost his job!

[Badboytunes]

 

 

The law is in place for everyone to stick to.

 

70mph on a motorway is the legal limit and should not be exceeded whether you are 17 or 70

 

 

 

 A fair point, but as Cooperman says how many people actually stick to the 70mph limit. I will be honest and say I dont. When I was young and stupid, I drove like a complete knob and lost my licence twice. At 25 I decided to grow up and drive sensibly. Mt dad was a traffic officer in the old 5-0 and I had 3 months of intensive "poloce driver training". It totally changed the way drove, taught me greater spatial awareness and high speed emergency braking ect. I use these " skills" and now consider myself a safe driver as far as my capabilities go. I look much further ahead than the car infront, reading driver behaviour ect and adapt my speed to suit.

 

That said, in built up areas I wil stick to 30 ect. However, on my way home if I feel the need I will drive along the A5 ( from Rugby to Towcester ) and have quite often done 90mph+. Visibility is good, I know the road and where particular hazards are. This does not make me an unsafe driver. I will even admit to having removed the front numberplate from my daily to avoid mr Police with his speed gun.

 

Speed doesnt kill, ( it may be contributing factor ), Its drive skill or the lack of it. Some spotty little herbert in his maxed out Shitron Paxo who has just passed his test, is more of a danger on the road at speed than someone with 27 accident free years motoring behind them.

[Carlos W]

An ex of mines father used to say "you're not the only fool on the road". His point was that you can never fully anticipate what other road users are going to do. If I am pulling out to overtake on a motorway and there's a car coming up behind me I always look twice to judge their speed, but many people don't.

If you crash at 100mph you're more likely to die than if you're doing 70, whether or not the crash is technically your fault or the fault of the muppet who didn't check his blind spot.

I had a VERY near miss with a foreign lorry driver on the M20 a few years ago, we'd driven 40 miles to a concert and when we got to the pub we were going to eat in we discovered the Mrs had forgotten the tickets so we had to hurry back to get them. I was going twice as fast as the lorry when he pulled into lane 3 to overtake (something they're not meant to do) I had nowhere to go, my view was of the back of 3 lorries.

After applying the brake pedal very hard I managed not to crash into the back of him thankfully.

There is no way I could've predicted the lorry driver doing that, he shouldn't have been in that lane.

[Dzmarc]

Its a bit of both really. 

 

I think most of us do / or have at some point exceeded the speed limit, and in doing so we take the consequences that come with it and have to expect it if we get caught. But I don't think the government would of been considering upping the NSL on A roads to 80mph a couple of years ago if they didn't have reason. Admittedly they didn't, but it does go to show how much cars and roads have improved. A bit of common sense goes a long way when driving and having an awareness about yourself makes it safer, especially in a mini. 

 

On the otherside of it, I also think their are a lot of idiots out there, those that drive with stupidly excessive speed in excess of 100 and those who drive at too low speed, or get right up behind you. There is nothing that annoys me more than when a lorry has to overtake a car!! Then again travelling at 100mph the closing distance is incredible and like some have already mentioned, most of the time the car pulling out won't notice this. 

 

Cars have improved a vast amount in the last few years, but unless you are both doing the same speed and in travelling in the same direction with nothing in front of you, a crash at those speeds is inviting death. Its not that the cars can't handle it, more our own internal organs weather that be at 70 or 100. 

 

So after all that ramble I guess the message is.

Use some common sense and be aware and pay some respect to you fellow drives and life will carry on. 

[Ben_O]

There is no way I could've predicted the lorry driver doing that, he shouldn't have been in that lane.

This is why i wrote what i wrote.

Carlos, if you hadn't bee hurrying and speeding, you would have most likely slowed down alot quicker reducing the risk of crashing significantly.

 

I just see it like this, You never know what is ahead and if if going a great speed makes it harder to stop if something does happen on that open empty road that i know really well on a clear night.

 

I was travelling round the M25 in the early hours of the morning a few years back and the road was completely clear.

 

I was doing around 70mph on a stretch of road i knew like the back of my hand. Yes i was tempted to speed up as it felt like i was going backwards with the road being so empty but i didn't.

 

Suddenly out of nowhere was a  crashed wreck in the middle of the lane which i didn't see, partly because of the monotony of driving and partly because of the distraction of the emergency vehicles in the hard shoulder.

 

I managed to swerve in time and just clipped the wreck but if i had been going faster, i know i wouldn't have avoided some sort of accident. 

 

I am just too terrified of hurting friends or loved ones to do pointless speeding

[Cooperman]

 

There is no way I could've predicted the lorry driver doing that, he shouldn't have been in that lane.

This is why i wrote what i wrote.

Carlos, if you hadn't bee hurrying and speeding, you would have most likely slowed down alot quicker reducing the risk of crashing significantly.

 

I just see it like this, You never know what is ahead and if if going a great speed makes it harder to stop if something does happen on that open empty road that i know really well on a clear night.

 

I was travelling round the M25 in the early hours of the morning a few years back and the road was completely clear.

 

I was doing around 70mph on a stretch of road i knew like the back of my hand. Yes i was tempted to speed up as it felt like i was going backwards with the road being so empty but i didn't.

 

Suddenly out of nowhere was a  crashed wreck in the middle of the lane which i didn't see, partly because of the monotony of driving and partly because of the distraction of the emergency vehicles in the hard shoulder.

 

I managed to swerve in time and just clipped the wreck but if i had been going faster, i know i wouldn't have avoided some sort of accident. 

 

I am just too terrified of hurting friends or loved ones to do pointless speeding

 

 

So this would have nothing to do with the approach speed, but was down to admitted lack of concentration. An experienced driver approaching at maybe 110 mph would have been looking for this type of problem and would have reacted to it. The police regularly drive at well over 100 mph without lights &/or sirens and they don't keep crashing. My goodness, to be distracted by emergency vehicles and then to almost run into the wreckage does show a lack of concentration and a tendency to be distracted. That is where experience, concentration and aptitude come into play.

 

The biggest problem, and I believe a study years ago showed this, is that most drivers don't look far enough down the road. In fact they don't look much beyond 100 yards ahead. A driver should be constantly looking to the limit of vision as well as developing good spatial awareness at all times. That way a truck or car will not suddenly pull out because the driver would have already seen the obstruction around which the truck would drive perhaps without signalling. I believe the police take the view that accidents are never acceptable even when they happen to innocent drivers.

 

Having been driving for a long time, I'm firmly of the opinion that the majority of crashes are caused by poor observation, poor positioning and a lack of concentration. I also believe that speed in excess of the posted limit is a very minor causation. In fact, the TRRL have stated that around 4% of RTC's involve vehicles being driven in excess of the posted limit. So that means 96% are not illegal speed related.

[Badboytunes]

^^^^ Well said, observation is key.

 

The Autobahn has unlimited sections as does the Isle of Man. I went to IOM with some MINI chums on a run and on the mountain pass, we were well into 100mph + figures. My mrs got pulled over, not because of the speed but purely because she strayed over a double white line. We were racing/playing with a Blues Focus ST3, turns out he was a copper. Other than a flea in her ear about sticking to correct side of the road, he praised her car control at high speed. But then again she is the same age as me, with the same length of expereince and not a pillock in a chav mobile drving beyond his or her capabilities.

Edited by Badboytunes, 14 November 2014 - 06:57 AM.