128 replies to this topic

[CityEPete]

 

 

 

Im reading used body in that link as a body for separate chassis vehicles, what we call a body on a mini is its chassis, the chassis has a chassis number just like a mini has. Is that the same terms pre 98 body swaps were allowed but interpreted to suit mini enthusiasts?

It is specifically aimed at cars with a monocoque chassis

 

Where does it say that?, I'm seeing body not chassis or any reference to monocoque chassis.

 

Here


http://www.gopetitio...42909.html#sign

 

But this NOTHING like what is or has been going on though, the fact it has managed 366 votes in nearly 4 years might give us a clue as to the popularity of the idea. I think it is a great idea as laid out there, where is the other log book and vin plates and the engineers report of the reused shell? It will never happen as it totally undermines the existing points sysytem IMO.

 

I dont really have an issue with the car in question as you say it was done a while ago, anyone buying it knows it will be a hot potato if they ever sell it the fact you have no proof it was done before 1998 could one day lead to its total demise although unlikely with evidence of other similar cars.

 

While that system is not in place and a few million votes off happening anytime soon should we be selling shells without a V5 on this site?

[CityEPete]

 

I was a member of the Mini Cooper Club (later MC Register) from the day it started in 1979 and can confirm that the major Mk1 or Mk2 Mini Cooper restorations at that time due to serious rust or accident damage often involved the use of a better secondhand shell bought and donated from a lesser 850 or 1000 Mini of an equivalent era. Only the Mk3 S had the luxury of a new shell being available from BL, the chairman and founder of the MCC Club in 1980 was actually restoring his Mk2 with a Mk3 shell. All this was openly talked about and many such restorations were detailed in the club magazine and the mainstream classic car mags at the time, along with photos of the donor car. It is only since 1998 as stated that the rules changed. Many of todays appreciated concours Mini's on the show scene, especially Coopers would not exist today had that not been the case.......if they had remained as basic everyday Mini's most would have been scrapped in the near future as worthless bangers as so many were in later years. We should not judge those pre-1998 restored cars by todays rules introduced by the DVLA in their infinite wisdom for modern cars but with little consideration for the sometimes special needs of classic car enthusiasts and restorers.

I fully agree, I would love to see someone restore chassis 12 to its original spec and colour and save it for future generations of mini enthusiasts, listening to most posters on here they would rather see it crushed, I love going to shows and looking over the works cars, concours cooper s etc, the mini scene would be much dimished if these cars had not been saved

 

Why is it chassis 12?

[Cooperman]

Take a look at this:

 

www.24pk.co.uk

 

This fantastic car was re-shelled using a used 850 shell in 1964 after a huge crash on the Manx Rally. I know how badly id was damaged as I steered it on tow to get it back to the UK.

But I guess many will consider it a 'ringer'. It is quite a famous car.

 

Then there is 120MNP (Google it), the first Cooper 'S' to win an international rally and privately owned as well. I know that was re-shelled many years ago and it looks superb and original. It was also changed from a 1071 to a 1275. I guess many also consider this to be a 'ringer' as well.

 

My son re-shelled a 998 Cooper using a 1275 'S' shell which I had replaced with a better one from an 850 Auto. He couldn't afford to buy a better shell, but he decided to restore the 998 using a shell which simply required too much work for my liking. That was back in 1991 - 2.

 

It does seem as though there are many on here who would rather see these famous cars simply crushed, but it's not going to happen. 'Mab01' knows what it is all about, as does the MCR.

 

I'm not going to post further on this as my enthusiasm for the early Mk.1 cars in general and the rally Coopers & 'S's is too strong to take this 'holier than thou' attitude. The whole thing is nonsense. It appears that if I have £6000 to spare, I can take one small piece of the original, say the upper part of the front bulkhead or the boot floor, put it in a full body jig, build the rest up with all new pattern panels, and it's legal. Then I can, subsequently, strip the shell again and replace that small original part and it's still legal. But if I take a good Mk.1 shell and re-build an existing car using all the parts it had and just changing the shell it is derided as a 'ringer'.

 

So you can all keep your opinions and those of us who own and use Mk.1 cars in competition will continue to do what has always been done.

[CityEPete]

Its all lovely but you know as we do that its wrong legally, that is the part in question. The fact people will accept these cars is fueling the theft of perfectly good cars that have the own ID, I get the sentimental stories they are great but as long as we accept used shells being transferred without both V5s somehow combined people are going to see rotten cars appear restored into other peoples cars, end of.

Two cars into one-ringer, flog the parts off and crush it for me.

[CityEPete]

Oh and holier than thou or not remember its not mine or more importantly YOURS or anyone else on here's decision if it does or does not get crushed at a later date, I guess in this case I really am holier than you, who is advocating illegal practices me or you?

[jpw1275]

I reckon probably 75% ish of minis are not in there original shell these days......how do you know yours is legal citepete unless you have had it from new....;0)

Cheers james

[CityEPete]

I dont but im not advocating swapping the vin onto another shell am I?, 25% is just missing rather than replaced yet, lol

[jpw1275]

So if you found out it wasn't the original shell .... Would you..... Not say anything or have it crushed ?

[CityEPete]

If I found out I'd keep it as is but also accept that it could be taken from me at a later date to be crushed and expect a storm in a teacup like this if I tried to sell, its because of threads like this the correct cars just become more and more desirable.

More importantly I would not sell my V5 or shell without vin plates, I agree we cant do anything about existing ringers but we can try and reduce a few that are going to happen. This idea of reshelling is too ingrained in the Mini scene because of the number of years it has been going on I suppose.

I also would not buy a ringer knowingly at any price, if anything I'd rather have a cat D or C that at least the powers that be (which again isn't me or anyone here) have given it the go ahead.

[Black.Ghost]

I googled the pre 98 rules last night. I didn't find what I was looking for, but every result that appeared was the whole re-shelling issue just on forum after forum after forum for different car marques and other motoring websites. 

[Cooperman]

Oh and holier than thou or not remember its not mine or more importantly YOURS or anyone else on here's decision if it does or does not get crushed at a later date, I guess in this case I really am holier than you, who is advocating illegal practices me or you?

 

I have rarely read such twaddle.

So you would happily crush the likes of ex-works cars which had such a huge impact on the success of the Mini, the first 'S' ever to win an international, the wonderful ex-Peter Moon 24PK, and the many, many other Minis from 850's to full-on Cooper 'S' with extensive competition history just because they had to have a shell replacement in the distant past.

Madness.

[jpw1275]

I understand both sides really....

[CityEPete]

Im not in charge of the crushing, nor are you cooperman!

Edited by CityEPete, 30 December 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[evosal]

Oh and holier than thou or not remember its not mine or more importantly YOURS or anyone else on here's decision if it does or does not get crushed at a later date, I guess in this case I really am holier than you, who is advocating illegal practices me or you?

 
I have rarely read such twaddle.
So you would happily crush the likes of ex-works cars which had such a huge impact on the success of the Mini, the first 'S' ever to win an international, the wonderful ex-Peter Moon 24PK, and the many, many other Minis from 850's to full-on Cooper 'S' with extensive competition history just because they had to have a shell replacement in the distant past.
Madness.

Exactly there would be hardly any left, that's without starting on all the rs fords, lotus cortinas, even vintage bugattis and blower Bentleys, ive never heard of anyone in the uk having a car crushed by the dvla because its been re-shelled, this guy (CityEPete) is talking absolute nonsense

Edited by evosal, 30 December 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[evosal]

I think you will also find the ones making all the noise don't have a historic mini worth shelling in the first place