Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

wood and pickett


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#16 t@z

t@z

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,712 posts
  • Local Club: www.turbominis.co.uk

Posted 22 July 2006 - 10:13 PM

well bit of an update. kevin has fixed the suspension problem for me as to be honest they left me no option really however i have another issue with them now that i will show you. he said there should be a plate and a nut in teh place that there is not connnecting the car and subframe.

before it went in with them (nut there)

Posted Image
after
Posted Image
and the other side
Posted Image
you'll also notice that the subframe does not even touch the frame as you can move the rubber that sits between the subframe and the chassis so it needs realigning
Posted Image

this is what happens when you turn the wheel, bearing in mind that they set up the MOT and it actually passed...as yu'll see the subframe and chassis more independently.
http://video.google....133687372515829

i didn't asked kevin to fix this as i will see what they have to say about it on monday. just though i'd show you all what sort of service you may expect?

T

Edited by t@z, 22 July 2006 - 10:20 PM.


#17 minipip

minipip

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts
  • Local Club: TMF SE

Posted 22 July 2006 - 11:15 PM

they look like the tower bolts have been left out but that photo looking down the hole looks like standard bolts that have been dropped down the hole and fitted to the subby, id go back and ask for my tower bolts back! thts crazy that car really isnt road worthey!
trading standards all the way mate

#18 Jammy

Jammy

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,397 posts

Posted 23 July 2006 - 07:16 AM

Trading standards if you can prove the bolts were missing after coming from them! But that is pretty shocking. Not sure why they'd take the tower bolts out to do the repairs to the suspension mounts either.

#19 Bungle

Bungle

    Original Spamster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,971 posts
  • Location: Cornwall
  • Local Club: cornish mini club

Posted 23 July 2006 - 07:24 AM

:( thats not good

#20 miniboo

miniboo

    Lord of Original Thinking

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,327 posts

Posted 23 July 2006 - 08:13 AM

What age is your car?

I might be wrong but it looks like it should have a twin bolt subframe, not the later single tower bolt type. could be why the bolts have gone all the way through??

just noticed it says 1970 in your signature.

i "think" (someone please correct me if i am wrong) that it should be a twin bolt subby. Have you or have you had someone change your subframe and they have fitted the wrong type?

#21 pdaykin

pdaykin

    Super Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 587 posts

Posted 23 July 2006 - 08:41 AM

You need to be very clear about this from now on as the problems wih your car look significant.

I cant remember the exact year that subrames changed from twin bolt to four bolt, but I think yours should be four bolt.

Either way, when working on my mk1's (four bolt subbies) I have mounted them on later twin bolt subbies just to get them around the garage - so the bolt you see there shouldnt/no need for it to go through the cross member.

You really must get that car checked. The rear and front mounts of the suby are different between two and four bolt types so you need to make sure the suby is adequately fixed. Looking at your pic it doesnt seem like it is fixed in sufficiently.

With regards W&P, you need to be very firm with them but not unreasonable. If you unreasonable they wil just dismiss you. In cases where little is written down you need to keep their good will.

Not wishing to tread on oher people's views, but dont expect to have them collect the car. It doesnt sound like they made the car worse - just didnt fix it. From theire point of view, if you were happy to drive it before, why not now ?

Make sure your facts are straight. If not, they will just think you are tryng it on. Eg, were the bolts in or not ?
Ask them how they did the work - did they take out the subby ?
Could you have misunderstood some of their comments ?
Were your instructions clear ?
Do you have any evidence that the subby was correctly attached before ?

Also, dont think that going to the small claims court is the answer - try and sort it out before them. All the court does is take up loads of your time and money. Its likely that you will ned a proper Engineers Report costing hundreds to submit with no certainty of success. You may only get a proportion of what you claim - would that cover the cost of preparing your case, if not then you are worse off !!! IIRC at the small claim court you cannot claim for the cost of your case.

#22 biggav

biggav

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,830 posts
  • Local Club: South Central

Posted 23 July 2006 - 09:00 AM

I'm no law expert, but looking at this from a fair sided point of view;

In My book, if i take something to be serviced or repaired, and i pay for it, then i expect to get what i paid for.

If for any reason they are enable to carry out repairs/services to a SATISFACTORY (i think that satisfactory is now used insead of fit for the purpose) standard then i need to be told how and why that was not done.
To simply say "we fixed it but it may break again" is complete bullsh!t.

If they have carried out a repair and passed an Mot on the vehicle in the knowledge that the repair may not be sound, then surely they have broken mot rules???? though they can also say that the mot is valid for the day of the test and any faliures have occured since then.

Do the following (in order) until you get the result you want.

1) Wood and picket. They need to be given the opportunity to put right what is wrong. I accept that you may have lost faith in their workmanship but you could always get someone else to check it afterwards..
if they refuse, or carry out another substandard repair, unleash hell and do the following.

2)Write a letter to Wood and Picket. Detailing the exact problem you have encountered with their workmanship, highlighting the concerns you have over them passing MOT's on a car which was clearly not roadworthy, but that all you really want is your car fixed... failing that, ALL of your money back in order to have the repairs carried out by someone who can do it to a satisfactory standard. Be sure to write WITHOUT PREJUDICE at the top of the letter... this indicates that you are willing to discuss the matter further with them and are willing to negotiate your terms but should the matter end up in court, they can't use it as evidence against you and say "here's you money back as you wanted" because if it comes to court, you will be wanting more than just your money back. as it will have taken up loads of your time getting 3rd parties involved.

3) Contact your credit card company, tell them you have paid for goods or services that are not SATISFACTORY, you have returned to the point of sale and are still not happy and wish to recall the payment... they may or maynot help but atleast you have tried and they are aware of it.

4) Trading standards. go back to them and tell them that in your view and that of an independent 3rd party specialist, work is not to a Satisfactory standard and you want either all your money back or repairs carried out to a Satisfactory standard and payment for the inspections/ work you have had to have done by palmer bros. If palmer bros have stated that the repairs were dangerous, also tell trading standards this. They will tell you how to go about making a claim in the small claims court.

5)The governing body of MOT testing stations... i think it's the VOSN but i may be wrong... surely then need to know if people doing MOT's are passing dangerous cars as safe.

6) Send Emails/letters to Watchdog, Rogue traders, Mini World, Mini Magazine, What car, any other classic car magazines, even better if wood and picket advertise in them!! they may or may not be able to help you.
but at least you will be happy in your own mind that you have done everything possible to prevent something similar from happening again. If anyone of 4,5 or 6 start breathing down their necks after they've recieved a without prejudice letter, I think that they will be more than willing to help you..

7) burn them down.... lol

#23 supermotolee

supermotolee

    One Carb Or Two?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,120 posts

Posted 23 July 2006 - 10:23 AM

i gave t@z a hand working on the car before it went into w&p and before it went in it had standard suspension with rubber dohnuts and ali cones,
then t@z bought coilovers for it and we started fitting the brackets(just to see how easy it would be) but we thought they could neeed some welding to the body as the bolts didnt look man enough so then we thought take it to a professional at which time t@z thought it best to have the car finished for the mot.
as with most quotes it doubled as the work went on but thats pretty normal...
they would have taken the tower bolts out to remove the old suspension to fit the coilovers (which they only bolted on and never welded like t@z suggested to them) i'm not sure what they were thinking and i dont know much about the different types of subframes but to my mind it looks like they have fitted a bolt (not a tower bolt) see pictures but they is never going to hold the sub frame to the car
all the advise is very helpful people thanks i hope t@z reads this soon and gets on their case!!!

#24 miniboo

miniboo

    Lord of Original Thinking

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,327 posts

Posted 23 July 2006 - 10:30 AM

you have a twin bolt body and a single bolt subframe.

My advice: DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR.

I say it is dangerous as it is.

#25 t@z

t@z

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,712 posts
  • Local Club: www.turbominis.co.uk

Posted 23 July 2006 - 10:46 AM

i will give them the opportunity to fix it otherwise i dont have a leg to stand on as per the trading standards. to be honest i just want to be able to drive it and the work that i paid for to have been done to a professional standard that i'd expect from such a name.

to pdaykin,

Not wishing to tread on oher people's views, but dont expect to have them collect the car. It doesnt sound like they made the car worse - just didnt fix it. From theire point of view, if you were happy to drive it before, why not now ?

true to an extent however when they make the car potentially dangerious for me and my passenger and could have been more than likely a fatal accident if my drivers side suspension had snapped off as i have only really used the car on the L2B journey, they did make it worse?? also if you take your car to have new wheels to be fitted there an they leave the nuts lose but you didn't know but your happy drive it then. because now you know?? also the mini specilist i took it to wouldn't le me drive it away due to it being unroad worthy and it would have cost me well over £100 pounds to get it there for them to possibly say no...

however this is fixed now and passed to this new problem. my main concern is that the subby and the chassis dont sit flush with each other allowing them to move when i turn the wheel, as there is a 3/4 inch gap between the subframe and the body.

as i said i will call them tomorrow expalining that the front subframe is not secured to the body and general gist of it and hopefully they will say bring it down let me look etc and i can get it all realligned and the front feeling rigid not like a peice of jelly.

thanks for your replies guy but i really hope that i dont need to do all the claims stuff as that really think that is to much hassle.

thanks again

#26 minidaves

minidaves

    Up Into Fourth

  • Traders
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,933 posts
  • Location: kent
  • Local Club: mine

Posted 23 July 2006 - 06:01 PM

from my veiw as a motor trader

THis fault is like a thumb hit with a hammer and if you took you car anywhere to be repaired they should have noticed this before any other faults, as for the mot garage well they are useless too. i cannot comment on the subframe sitation totally nut my guess is the car has a wet subframe and the car was built as a wet susepntioned car.

both garages are at fault as far as i am concerned as well as the mot station,

no wonder i have a list as long as your arm on the problem solving front at work

dave

#27 t@z

t@z

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,712 posts
  • Local Club: www.turbominis.co.uk

Posted 23 July 2006 - 08:04 PM

i dont know what you mean by wet sub frame unless you mean that it was recently painted to which it wasn't. everything was tight as it should be before they just had to undo all that to get the cones out for the coil kit

the mini specalist that i just picked it up from did notice it however if i am going to stand any chance at getting it fixed i need the car back and give w&p a chance to fix it

T

#28 minivanman

minivanman

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,454 posts
  • Local Club: Backstreet Minis

Posted 23 July 2006 - 08:10 PM

by wet subframe he means hydrolastic

#29 minidaves

minidaves

    Up Into Fourth

  • Traders
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,933 posts
  • Location: kent
  • Local Club: mine

Posted 23 July 2006 - 08:14 PM

does it have rubber floor mounts?

dave

#30 t@z

t@z

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,712 posts
  • Local Club: www.turbominis.co.uk

Posted 23 July 2006 - 08:22 PM

nope as far as i could see had normal mini suspension i think, cones and dampers...and by rubber floor mounts you mean?

sorry about my knowledge its a bit rubbish

Edited by t@z, 23 July 2006 - 08:26 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users