44 replies to this topic

[I hate Brian]

Hi all,

Would anyone be kind enough to give any feed back on the Minitastci coil spring replacement rubber cone suspension or similar on MiniSpares and Minisport

[nicklouse]

no.

 

why change a rising rate spring for a linear spring.

 

you will have a hard inital ride that will then wallow in corners rather than stiffen up.

[I hate Brian]

Hi Nicklouse

Are we on the same page ? I means actual springs not coil overs to directly replace the rubber cone

[Spider]

Hi Nicklouse

Are we on the same page ? I means actual springs not coil overs to directly replace the rubber cone

 

Yes, he's certainly on the same page!  (and no, I'm not be facetious). Coil Springs in a Mini are no replacement.

 

Do a search, there's been a few threads on the subject.

Edited by Moke Spider, 09 November 2015 - 09:03 AM.

[nicklouse]

Hi Nicklouse

Are we on the same page ? I means actual springs not coil overs to directly replace the rubber cone

coil overs can be an ok alternátive but only if you do not fit them where the shocks go. as if you do you make the linear spring a falling rate spring. which is even worse.

[I hate Brian]

Ok thanks for that, so what would you recommend to slightly firm up the standard mini set up ?

[Carlos W]

Ok thanks for that, so what would you recommend to slightly firm up the standard mini set up ?

 

Some people (who've actually used them) say they're fantastic.

 

It may be that they're comparing them to knackered cones though

[Dusky]

Depends on your use. I got minitastic road springs ( not fast road).
The car is more supple than it was on his 24 year old cones ( of wich 1 collapsed).
I can t feel any noticable more bodyroll than it had, running kyb gas a just shocks with them. Ive been in cars with other brands of springs and they really were not up for the job.(minitastic are actually rising springrate springs, Theyre coiled in a cone shape) If you want to stiffen it up ( God knows why you want to stiffen a mini for road use ) then buy red dot cones. Racers run springs, but have no comfort.

[I hate Brian]

Thanks Dusky, have you been over a rough road or ground as there have been quotes of the springs popping out ???

[Dusky]

They only pop out if you d use race springs and lower the car, then they could pop out when the car is in the air. Nothing to worry about when using road or fast road springs with a decent ride height ;)

[I hate Brian]

Nice one Dusky, there seems to be a lot of negativity towards this kind of set-up for some reason? I don't know whether its because of a purist attitude keeping the Mini original

[Cooperman]

I fail to see how replacing the superb rubber cone springs, which are real 'rising rate' springs designed for the weight and configuration of the short-travel Mini suspension, with a coil spring will improve anything.
If a softer ride is wanted then a Mini is not for you. The rubber springs are relatively soft initially, then they harden up as they are compressed until, at full travel they are quite hard and have a high rate.
If a coil spring 'binds' it will be useless and it may well do this as full travel is reached, for example on a bumpy road. Why would a coil spring with a lower initial rate be any better overall? Answer, it won't.
Coil springs, with a very high initial rate are, however, ideal for racing where the initial 'hardness' improves 'turn-in' and reduced initial body roll when entering a corner on a completely smooth race track. But you don't drive a race car on the normal roads.

[nicklouse]

Nice one Dusky, there seems to be a lot of negativity towards this kind of set-up for some reason? I don't know whether its because of a purist attitude keeping the Mini original

 nothing to do with purist they are just a very poor alternative for the correct spring.

[Dusky]

I fail to see how replacing the superb rubber cone springs, which are real 'rising rate' springs designed for the weight and configuration of the short-travel Mini suspension, with a coil spring will improve anything.
If a softer ride is wanted then a Mini is not for you. The rubber springs are relatively soft initially, then they harden up as they are compressed until, at full travel they are quite hard and have a high rate.
If a coil spring 'binds' it will be useless and it may well do this as full travel is reached, for example on a bumpy road. Why would a coil spring with a lower initial rate be any better overall? Answer, it won't.
Coil springs, with a very high initial rate are, however, ideal for racing where the initial 'hardness' improves 'turn-in' and reduced initial body roll when entering a corner on a completely smooth race track. But you don't drive a race car on the normal roads.

And that's probably why most people ( like me) like springs, they're way btter than old cones.

I'd love to try some red dot cones one day, but could get my hands cheap(ish) on the minitastics, and after some bad machining on my crankshaft I can't spare the cash for new red dots. 

On the other hand, I don't think coil springs will bind that easily, but you don't have the freedom of lowering the car to wher you want it, you need to set it up to (almost) exactly the manifacturers spec, IF that is supplied , places like huddersfield seem to not know anything about it.. maybe thats why their spring snaps so easily too..

[Cooperman]

When Alec Moulton designed the rubber cone springs for the Mini he had the option of a coil spring. At the time BMC were using coil springs in most of their cars, like the A35, A40, A90, etc, so that would have been a logical thing to do. However, the available travel made the design very difficult and the consistency of spring rates in production would have been difficult to achieve. In addition, a large rubber bump stop would have been necessary to avoid any risk of coil binding and consequent loss of control and/or structural damage.
The rubber cone springs are a brilliant alternative as they are easy to produce with consistent rate, they really are true 'rising rate', which is absolutely vital, and the low initial rate gives an acceptable ride quality, whilst on rough roads they are superb considering the short travel of the suspension.
You can't improve on the best.
Of course, quite a lot of race-developed bits are marketed for road cars as 'improvements' hen, if fact, they are detrimental. But the suppliers don't care, they just want to sell as much 'stuff' as possible.
No-one can tell us, in proper engineering terms, how a coil spring on a Mini road car can have benefits which outweigh the disadvantages because there are none.