36 replies to this topic

[floormanager]

Just to add my 4 penneth regarding easy outs... in my mis-spent youth, while re-bulding my mini engine, I had as a daily driver, a MK1 Metro Turbo (God I wish I still had that car).  Anyway, I thought it would be good to fit an oil pressure guage, as the Metro only had a oil pressure switch.  So, I fitted the guage, using an oil pressure T piece.  All was perfect for a few months, then I started squirting oil out - the damn T piece had broken off where it went into the block!!!!  A friendly mechanic lent me an easy out which I screwed into the block.  After a few turns, a piece of the block, from the oilway, fell out!!!!! Agast, and feeling suicidal, I went to see an engineering shop with the bit that came out, who say they can stitch it back, but I need to to get the engine to them, stripped and cleaned.

 

Bottom line, be very careful with easy outs, they break cast iron very easily. And, if anyone has a Metro turbo block with a stitched oilway and a unique oil adapter where the turbo oilway goes in, then I would love to know my old engine is alive and well!!

[Spider]

All too true.

 

My experience with coff coff Easy Outs, coff coff coff has be 'how to take a fairly straight forward job and turn it in to your worst nightmare. Floormanager, this sounds similar to your story.

 

A Tap and Die Set I bought a few years back had Easy Outs in it, Upon opening the set for the first time, I promptly threw the Easy Outs away to use the slots in the tray for something useful.

 

I'm sure they were made in the devils workshop and christened in the same place on the Sabbath. IMO, quite a misnomer.

 

If you do feel the need to use something like this, there are parallel splined tools, look a bit like a Torx Bit, that usually do work. I have a few of these and mostly had good success with them, but some caution is still needed as they are still an expanding type tool, but less so than an SlEasy Out

Edited by Moke Spider, 17 January 2016 - 08:50 PM.

[floormanager]

I learnt a very expensive and costly lesson that time - never use easy outs.  Still, it was cool re-building my first engine and the joy when it started again!!  I re-built the entire engine up in my Mum's conservatory, on her chest freezer

[WimpyMiniMan]

hmm so sounds like drilling and re-tapping is the safest method as I don't currently own a welder - although I am on the look out for a good mig around the £200-300 mark on ebay. does anyone know the size of the drill bit ill need for the job? the bolt that came out of the other holes looks to be about 7mm in diameter. Also could anyone point me in the direction of a good quality tapping set? I thought silver line were ok but after trying to use their easy outs today and them instantly stripping I'm not so sure.

 

Once again thanks for all the comments, your knowledge is invaluable :) 

Cheers

George

Edited by WimpyMiniMan, 17 January 2016 - 09:51 PM.

[Spider]

You could buy a set and there's some good ones about at reasonable prices, nicely boxed.

 

However, if you bought some loose taps and dies, it will cover 95% of the car;-

 

     1/4" UNF

     5/16" UNF

     3/8" UNF

     5/16" UNC

     3/8" UNC

[WimpyMiniMan]

You could buy a set and there's some good ones about at reasonable prices, nicely boxed.

 

However, if you bought some loose taps and dies, it will cover 95% of the car;-

 

     1/4" UNF

     5/16" UNF

     3/8" UNF

     5/16" UNC

     3/8" UNC

After reading that buying loose taps provides better quality and value for money i think i will do that :) that bolt is coming out one way or another! - Also which size is the housing bolt - unf or unc as the description says unf/unc which is not very helpful.

Edited by WimpyMiniMan, 17 January 2016 - 11:16 PM.

[nicklouse]

There is, again, no thread in the housing.

The head is UNC the nut UNF.

[WimpyMiniMan]

There is, again, no thread in the housing.

The head is UNC the nut UNF.

Sorry - I meant the stud that screws into the head passing through the housing - so really for this job all i need is a 5/16 unc tap? 

Cheers

George

[dklawson]

Yes, 5/16 UNC for the cylinder head.

 

I am a proponent of left-hand drill bits of you can get them. As mentioned, they often grab the broken fastener and unscrew it once enough material has been removed.  Regardless of left or right-hand, use your drill bits starting from small and working up larger.  Keep the hole wet with penetrating oil.

[timmy850]

You could buy a set and there's some good ones about at reasonable prices, nicely boxed.

 

However, if you bought some loose taps and dies, it will cover 95% of the car;-

 

     1/4" UNF

     5/16" UNF

     3/8" UNF

     5/16" UNC

     3/8" UNC

 

Are these the same thread size?

1/4" UNC & 1/4 -20NC

I'm no good with threads and these are $77 for a set..

https://www.kincrome...ie-set-imperial

[nz_seamless]

Yes, 5/16 UNC for the cylinder head.

 

I am a proponent of left-hand drill bits of you can get them. As mentioned, they often grab the broken fastener and unscrew it once enough material has been removed.  Regardless of left or right-hand, use your drill bits starting from small and working up larger.  Keep the hole wet with penetrating oil.

With all due respect, I have found them seldom helpful, and not worth the expense of acquiring and keeping around. If the very small amount of anti-clockwise twist you get from a left hand drill bit is enough to move the fastener, then it was ready to come out anyway. I have never had them remove any broken fasteners where there was corrosion or galling of the thread.

Also while I'm up here in the rarefied air atop my soapbox - easy out's are easy to buy, but that's the last time they are easy. Engineers do a brisk trade in machining out holes with a busted fastener in the bottom and a snapped easy out above it, as applied by amateurs like us.

 

@wimpyminiman unless you own a mill, I would take it to a machinist to deal with. Your chances of drilling down the exact centre of a bolt with a handheld drill are slim. Your chances of getting off centre and then either not drilling enough out, or of drilling out into the casting are higher. If you damage the head, you will be really peeved.

Try and get heat into it, or take it to someone who can weld onto the snapped stud if you have access to it (not too far down hole), that will more than likely get it out.

[Spider]

 

You could buy a set and there's some good ones about at reasonable prices, nicely boxed.

 

However, if you bought some loose taps and dies, it will cover 95% of the car;-

 

     1/4" UNF

     5/16" UNF

     3/8" UNF

     5/16" UNC

     3/8" UNC

 

Are these the same thread size?

1/4" UNC & 1/4 -20NC

I'm no good with threads and these are $77 for a set..

https://www.kincrome...ie-set-imperial

 

 

Yeah, 1/4" UNC is 20 Threads per Inch (there's only one that I know of on the whole car hence why I didn't include it in my list). I have to say though, I tend to cringe when I see Taps and Dies listed as 'NC', maybe it's just me but it comes across as being written (engraved / published / whatever) as someone who doesn't understand or appreciate the finer points of thread forms. I also question what the Included Angle of an 'NC' Thread is, ie, is it 55⁰ or 60⁰ or something else. Maybe I'm pedantic, but it's all too easy to take material out when it shouldn't be.

 

77 bucks for the set isn't a bad price at all, but I'd suggest not only weighing up what I've said here but also think about the value of the parts you maybe using them on, eg, if it's say cleaning up nuts and bolts, then there's little risk, and go for it but say on a block, it can do irreparable damage, then suddenly the $77 set isn't so cheap after all.

[WimpyMiniMan]

I settled on buying a 5/16 unc tap set incl. taper tap, second tap and bottom tap, and a tap wrench from a local engineering firm http://www.avontapdie.co.uk - cost me £31.52 for the lot incl postage so hopefully paying for quality will pay off in the long run.

I have already drilled the bolt through the centre so I think I will tap it. Just slow and steady and hopefully I can resume putting the radiator and thermostat housing back on.

Edited by WimpyMiniMan, 18 January 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[dklawson]

 

I am a proponent of left-hand drill bits 

 

With all due respect, I have found them seldom helpful, and not worth the expense of acquiring and keeping around. If the very small amount of anti-clockwise twist you get from a left hand drill bit is enough to move the fastener, then it was ready to come out anyway. 

 

I apologize.  I should have been more complete in my post.  When drilling out any broken fastener, you do not make one hole and say you are done.  You start with a small diameter bit (as close to center in the broken fastener as possible) and move to progressively larger diameter bits until you approach the minor diameter of the fastener.  At that point almost all the stress on the threads has been relieved and what is left of the fastener will move.  With left-hand bits, when you have reached some critical hole diameter it is very common for the bit to catch in the broken part of the fastener and back it out of the hole.  Again, lots of oil and progressively larger bits.  I am sure if you only made one hole with any bit you would not find drilling to be helpful.

 

 

I settled on buying a 5/16 unc tap set incl. taper tap, second tap and bottom tap, and a tap wrench from a local engineering firm http://www.avontapdie.co.uk - cost me £31.52 for the lot incl postage 

 

That is horribly expensive.  I am sure places like Machine Mart or similar must have complete sets for a bit more than that.  The complete sets will have multiple thread sizes but not multiple tap forms.  A taper or plug tap is what you want for most repair jobs.  A bottoming tap is nice for blind holes but gets a lot less use.  You don't want to buy a super cheap set of taps as they are often dull or brittle.  However, a mid-priced set where the tap and die tooth profiles have been ground sharp is usually good for home use.

[WimpyMiniMan]

I just thought because I will eventually be restoring the car completely over the summer and there are only 6 different tap sizes I'll need I may aswell buy from a proper firm - that way if it breaks or the quality is poor I can take it back and get a full refund or a new set as I live nearby. Worked out that buying all the taps will cost about £50 was just the wrench that was a little expensive.