31 replies to this topic

[absx2]

I was in the body repair trade for over 30 years, When 2k came in we did not use it until we had a proper spray booth, 2k paint has isosyanate in it as well as other harmful chemicals, isosyanate when it gets in the blood steam never leaves the system, the paint is also very aggressive and can cause cancer of the respiratory system if used on a regular basis, I know I've seen it!!. Using an air fed mask is the very minimum in a well ventilated area.  Cellulose is ok if it is done properly, I done my Mini 25 years ago and it is as good now as it was when it was done. If you really must use 2k get someone with the proper facilities to do it for you !!!!.

You have been warned.  

 

 

Go and do a google search on H&S for 2k paint and then draw your own conclusion.
Don't bother asking the professional painters again as they will be dead in a few months.

Very wise words indeed. 

A neighbor was taken away in an ambulance and spent 3 days in hospital for spraying a Cortina boot lid OUTSIDE in 2K with supposed 2K filters!  and if thats not enough reading the fatality`s on the internet should put off the hero`s that think its OK and it will never happen to them.

I spray 2K epoxy 2-3 times a month as part of my line of work ( shipwright) but I resprayed my 67 cooper in cellulose with a 2k primer to achieve a period look.

As mentioned masses more prep but couldn`t have been more happy with the result.   

Edited by absx2, 16 April 2016 - 05:57 PM.

[Dusky]

Lets get a few things straight.
Is it possible to spray 2k at home? Yes
Is it possible without an airfed mask? Yes
Will it damage you permanently? No
It ALL depends on how you use your brain. Change your filters Quick enough. Never use them more than 2-3 hours you should smell it when your filters are packing up,there are some ingredients in paint with Will break through before the isocyanates. . Is it cheaper to spray 1-2 cars with this method? Yes. Would changing filters everyday 2-3 hours be an option when doing professional work? No, it would be too expensive.
A2 filters Will keep you safe if you use them properly. Always test your mask for a good seal. Most ( if not all!) horror stories are because of People not using their brain / getting over confident.

And Just a disclaimer incase someone reads this and doesnt use his/her brain: Please follow your local rules, laws, whatever.

[absx2]

Lets get a few things straight.
Is it possible to spray 2k at home? Yes
Is it possible without an airfed mask? Yes
Will it damage you permanently? No
It ALL depends on how you use your brain. Change your filters Quick enough. Never use them more than 2-3 hours you should smell it when your filters are packing up,there are some ingredients in paint with Will break through before the isocyanates. . Is it cheaper to spray 1-2 cars with this method? Yes. Would changing filters everyday 2-3 hours be an option when doing professional work? No, it would be too expensive.
A2 filters Will keep you safe if you use them properly. Always test your mask for a good seal. Most ( if not all!) horror stories are because of People not using their brain / getting over confident.

And Just a disclaimer incase someone reads this and doesnt use his/her brain: Please follow your local rules, laws, whatever.

 

Dangerous advice, there is a right way and a wrong way and its a moral obligation when answering a question that can have potentially fatal consequences.

 

Once the nasty stuff is inside your body is stays there forever so each time you expose yourself to it it builds up. DAMAGING YOU PERMANENTLY.

You need full body protection and a FULL FACE MASK as 2K is brilliant at passing through your eyes. just ask my neighbour that spent 3 days in hospital.

3m`s own site tells you in bold red letters to use an air feed mask for 2k   multimedia.3m.com

my spraybake oven will empty the room of vapour in just over 1 minute but my 3 predecessors never made it to much over retirement age due to ppe available as the time. 

H&S has come a long way so is it not better to learn by the mistakes of our predecessors.

It reminds me of teenagers back in the day sniffing glue. Some got a buzz out of it but some dropped dead on the spot so the best way to stay alive was not to expose yourself to glue :)

[Dusky]

Lets get a few things straight.
Is it possible to spray 2k at home? Yes
Is it possible without an airfed mask? Yes
Will it damage you permanently? No
It ALL depends on how you use your brain. Change your filters Quick enough. Never use them more than 2-3 hours you should smell it when your filters are packing up,there are some ingredients in paint with Will break through before the isocyanates. . Is it cheaper to spray 1-2 cars with this method? Yes. Would changing filters everyday 2-3 hours be an option when doing professional work? No, it would be too expensive.
A2 filters Will keep you safe if you use them properly. Always test your mask for a good seal. Most ( if not all!) horror stories are because of People not using their brain / getting over confident.

And Just a disclaimer incase someone reads this and doesnt use his/her brain: Please follow your local rules, laws, whatever.

 
Dangerous advice, there is a right way and a wrong way and its a moral obligation when answering a question that can have potentially fatal consequences.
 
Once the nasty stuff is inside your body is stays there forever so each time you expose yourself to it it builds up. DAMAGING YOU PERMANENTLY.
You need full body protection and a FULL FACE MASK as 2K is brilliant at passing through your eyes. just ask my neighbour that spent 3 days in hospital.
3m`s own site tells you in bold red letters to use an air feed mask for 2k   multimedia.3m.com
my spraybake oven will empty the room of vapour in just over 1 minute but my 3 predecessors never made it to much over retirement age due to ppe available as the time. 
H&S has come a long way so is it not better to learn by the mistakes of our predecessors.
It reminds me of teenagers back in the day sniffing glue. Some got a buzz out of it but some dropped dead on the spot so the best way to stay alive was not to expose yourself to glue :)

The trick is not getting it in your body by using your brains. 3m changed their policy after they started selling airfed masks ( coincidence...) Modern 2k has much lower voc too, combined with hvlp there is much less overspray.
Dont get me wrong, I agree with you to a cerrain level. But you cant compare the past with the present, not on the particle concentration, not on the quality of the filters, we're talking about filters wich are used in case of a chemical warfare attack. Positive breathing protection is needed because of the chance of a leak, wich wont happen if you use your brains.
And finaly, no one Will ever spray 2k at home following the h&s rules, you d need a quite expensive boot for That.
Lots of People sprayed it without problems, a few people c*ck up, wonder what the issue is to be honest.

Edited by Dusky, 17 April 2016 - 10:13 AM.

[Daz1968]

If you look on hse website the risk with isocyanate is occupational asthma from breathing the paint mist. Only positive pressure mask can guarantee not being exposed, there is no danger from skin or eye contact other than dermatitis,
I wouldn't risk a filter mask especially at home as concentrations are much higher and clearance times longer than in a proper booth so in reality the risk is higher.
I bought an airfed mask but it really needs a 3hp compressor of its own to run effectively,

[miniseven61]

Clearly Dusky is in denial, they seem to have a different attitude to the value of life on this planet over there in Belgium.

[sonikk4]

And i will point this out to all

 

Warning
 
Please be careful when answering peoples bodywork questions that you do not misguide them into taking inappropriate action. Not only is this annoying, but it can also be costly and could even be dangerous if the wrong information is given (for example spraying and the use of masks). This is why we ask that only first-hand and factual information is posted in reply to peoples queries. If you are not 100% certain of your reply, be sure to point out your uncertainty.

 

http://www.hse.gov.u...isocyanates.htm

[Dusky]

Clearly Dusky is in denial, they seem to have a different attitude to the value of life on this planet over there in Belgium.

No need to get rude. Talk to John kosmoski, he has a lot more experience than this whole forum combined.
Airfed masks need more than a good compressor, compressor air Will kill you too.

Im using first hand information, actualy.

Edited by Dusky, 17 April 2016 - 07:07 PM.

[sonikk4]

 

Clearly Dusky is in denial, they seem to have a different attitude to the value of life on this planet over there in Belgium.

No need to get rude. Talk to John kosmoski, he has a lot more experience than this whole forum combined.
Airfed masks need more than a good compressor, compressor air Will kill you too.

Im using first hand information, actualy.

 

 

So who is this person who has more experience than the combined 48,854 members on here.

 

To anybody who uses an airfed mask these are not plugged directly into a compressor. They should be connected to a filter system to remove any contaminants from said air supply.

http://www.ebay.co.u...4kAAOSwmmxW59wD

 

Positioning of the compressor inlet is extremely important as well.

 

The fact you are pre judging members on here who are very experienced sprayers and who follow our HSE legislation that is relevant in this country is poor form. 

[Dusky]

 

 

Clearly Dusky is in denial, they seem to have a different attitude to the value of life on this planet over there in Belgium.

No need to get rude. Talk to John kosmoski, he has a lot more experience than this whole forum combined.
Airfed masks need more than a good compressor, compressor air Will kill you too.

Im using first hand information, actualy.

 

 

So who is this person who has more experience than the combined 48,854 members on here.

 

To anybody who uses an airfed mask these are not plugged directly into a compressor. They should be connected to a filter system to remove any contaminants from said air supply.

http://www.ebay.co.u...4kAAOSwmmxW59wD

 

Positioning of the compressor inlet is extremely important as well.

 

The fact you are pre judging members on here who are very experienced sprayers and who follow our HSE legislation that is relevant in this country is poor form. 

 

Google him, owner and founder of House of Kolor... Think he's spraying for 60 years now.

How am I pre judging? If I did, It wasn't intended, sorry.

Edited by Dusky, 17 April 2016 - 07:40 PM.

[sonikk4]

 

 

 

Clearly Dusky is in denial, they seem to have a different attitude to the value of life on this planet over there in Belgium.

No need to get rude. Talk to John kosmoski, he has a lot more experience than this whole forum combined.
Airfed masks need more than a good compressor, compressor air Will kill you too.

Im using first hand information, actualy.

 

 

So who is this person who has more experience than the combined 48,854 members on here.

 

To anybody who uses an airfed mask these are not plugged directly into a compressor. They should be connected to a filter system to remove any contaminants from said air supply.

http://www.ebay.co.u...4kAAOSwmmxW59wD

 

Positioning of the compressor inlet is extremely important as well.

 

The fact you are pre judging members on here who are very experienced sprayers and who follow our HSE legislation that is relevant in this country is poor form. 

 

Google him, owner and founder of House of Kolor... Think he's spraying for 60 years now.

How am I pre judging? If I did, It wasn't intended, sorry.

 

 

So the first Youtube clip i see of him is in a spray booth with him wearing an Airfed mask.  

 

I will not dispute his experience but when i often see some very popular American car shows where they are spraying cars without an airfed mask this raises doubts. Their legislation maybe different to ours BUT in this country you need to follow the guidelines set by HSE.

 

When my lad had his car sprayed by a experienced painter he not only used modern 2k paint but also water based as well. In both cases he used an airfed mask.

 

His compressor not only fed the spray booth including his breathing air but also the workshop air supply. Both systems were fed from a very expensive unit that had a split system. It was also located away from the spray booth and any other areas of possible contaminated air.

 

So going on from that as it stands currently when using 2k paint products an airfed mask is a must. I do not disagree that a compressor can cause issues as well but if you use an airfed mask then you should have read the user instructions and what the requirements are.

[Midas Mk1]

Shocking attitude dusky, on such an important subject, it should be made clear there is no short cuts around the health procautions of using 2k...

[Dusky]

 

 

 

 

Clearly Dusky is in denial, they seem to have a different attitude to the value of life on this planet over there in Belgium.

No need to get rude. Talk to John kosmoski, he has a lot more experience than this whole forum combined.
Airfed masks need more than a good compressor, compressor air Will kill you too.

Im using first hand information, actualy.

 

 

So who is this person who has more experience than the combined 48,854 members on here.

 

To anybody who uses an airfed mask these are not plugged directly into a compressor. They should be connected to a filter system to remove any contaminants from said air supply.

http://www.ebay.co.u...4kAAOSwmmxW59wD

 

Positioning of the compressor inlet is extremely important as well.

 

The fact you are pre judging members on here who are very experienced sprayers and who follow our HSE legislation that is relevant in this country is poor form. 

 

Google him, owner and founder of House of Kolor... Think he's spraying for 60 years now.

How am I pre judging? If I did, It wasn't intended, sorry.

 

 

So the first Youtube clip i see of him is in a spray booth with him wearing an Airfed mask.  

 

I will not dispute his experience but when i often see some very popular American car shows where they are spraying cars without an airfed mask raises doubts. Their legislation maybe different to our BUT in this country you need to follow the guidelines set by HSE.

 

When my lad had his car sprayed by a experienced painter he not only used modern 2k paint but also water based as well. In both cases he used an airfed mask.

 

His compressor not only fed the spray booth including his breathing air but also the workshop air supply. Both systems were fed from a very expensive unit that had a split system. It was also located away from the spray booth and any other areas of possible contaminated air.

 

So going on from that as it stands currently when using 2k paint products an airfed mask is a must. I do not disagree that a compressor can cause issues as well but if you use an airfed mask then you should have read the user instructions and what the requirements are.

 

 

 

Shocking attitude dusky, on such an important subject, it should be made clear there is no short cuts around the health procautions of using 2k...

Talk to him, he will tell you a lot of things.
Shocking attitude? Just my experience with the stuff. I've always been against using 2K at home (had a friend who tried spraying it without mask, let me tell you that didn't end too well for him..)
But I did try the new low voc 2k clear a week or 2 ago ,, with suitable extraction, but with a 3M f7500 series filter mask (wich should protect for 40 hours @ 50x the max UK allowed workshop concentration). 
I'm not trying to offend anyone on here though, maybe it's the language barrier acting up? I'll try to put it differently and very simplified : I don't get all the fuzz around 2K, 1K and celly are very dangerous as well, maybe even more dangerous as often people will think these are 'safe'. I've seen an awefull lot of people spraying celly with just a dust mask, for example .
 

[sonikk4]

My last input to this thread is this link.

http://www.hse.gov.u...myths/myth3.htm

[Stu.]

HSE's info also explains that 'Isocyanates are used in some water-based paints, most base coats and almost all lacquers.  ‘Water-based' does not mean ‘isocyanate-free', just that it is emulsion based and has reduced levels of solvents'.

 

Did not know that. Thanks for the link Neil. Every days a School day.