56 replies to this topic

[jaysmini1983]

hi,

 

I have been thinking to remove the standard rubber cones and fit coils instead. I have 13" wheels so ride is a little hard.

 

I went onto Huddersfield spares site and put them into my basket but didnt complete the sale. after 3 emails from them asking to complete they emailed saying i can get 5% discount( saves the postage) so im tempted

 

anyone got any thoughts

 

thanks

 

[nicklouse]

fit new rubbers if you want a better ride.

[Van13]

I say it every time Huddersfield is a company to stay clear off many friends and me personally who have had bad experiences with them
Poor quality merchandise and shocking responses when complained .
Become a tmf member 7.5% discount at minispares they are not the cheapest but when things go wrong they are a great help

[Cooperman]

Unless you are racing on a totally smooth track, the rubber cone springs are the best form of suspension for the classic Mini.

To improve the ride when using 13" wheels you should raise the ride height a little (maybe 2 cm) and fit adjustable dampers set slightly softer than you would normally have them with the better 12" or 10" wheels. The extra ride height and thus greater suspension travel then makes up for the loss of suspension compliance from the tyre walls.

[Swift_General]

+1 to above. The mini has comparatively short suspension travel, so it was designed with rubber suspension which gives a rising spring rate as opposed to a coil spring which is linear. That means that if you were to choose a coil spring that exerts that same force as a rubber cone at 'full bump' the rate at lower compression would be more than with rubber, not less, so you would get the opposite of what you're trying achieve (think if a graph with force plotted against suspension travel for rubber and coil spring and you'll see what I mean). Also as the mini is a relatively light car, the weight of contents (i.e. driver/passengers) relative to vehicle weight will vary more. Again rubber deals with this better. Of course rubber does deteriorate though so as others have suggested you may need new cones.

[Spider]

Just to add to the above excellent comments, one of the engineering compromises they have to make with a Coil Spring is that the spring travel itself has to be reduced in order to get a Spring that will fit and has enough rate.

 

So, no matter how they are set for ride height, the limited travel that the front suspension (in particular) has even less travel.If set at standard or raised hight, it's fairly easy to get coil bind long before hitting the bump stops. This is what leads to busted Hilos and Subframes.

 

Do a search on the forum and you'll find some other's experiences with them.

[Orange-Phantom]

I've got the Mini Delta fast road springs on mine (they were fitted when I got it).  I've decided that I'm going to put it back to rubber suspension.

 

Mines great on a nice smooth road but unfortunately alot of our roads on the Isle of Man are like a Baghdad runway, and although these springs are okay on rough roads, the original suspension is much better at dealing with them.

 

I've just done a comparison after driving my brothers racing Cooper S, and it's just so much better on the roads over here, so that's why I'm going to put it back to rubber.

 

To be honest with springs on a mini, it's trying to fix something that was never broken!

[Cooperman]

It is hard to see how coil springs can be any sort of advantage over the rubber cone springs because they are such a simply superb design to begin with.

 

If a smoother ride is wanted it is simple - don't buy an old classic Mini, buy a modern car with lots of suspension travel and comfort.

[tiger99]

The question comes up again and again. The facts will not change, so nor will the correct answer, which has been correctly given above in various ways. Unless you are doing something really clever, such as introducing a different RISING RATE springing media, possibly gas, the short travel suspension is NEVER going to work properly. It is all a question of the size of the car, and the resulting short wishbones.

 

You ONLY get sufficiently rising rate from coil springs by allowing the coils to progressively close up on bump, which has two bad effects. Firstly, the protective coating, probably just paint but maybe plastic, will be eroded until steel is exposed, followed by local rusting, stress corrosion cracking and fracture. Secondly, with the very thick spring wire needed to get the correct rate, as has been suggested above, they will close up fully within the necessary travel range and subject the subframes and suspension parts to hard impact loads, well above their design rating, leading to fatigue fracture, or even quicker, plain tensile overload fracture. Additionally, with coilovers, the top mounts, front and rear, are only fit to take damper loads, not combined spring and damper loads. And, the bump stops will take such a hammering that they will fail, possibly followed soon after by the ball joints if they are deflected beyond their working angle.

 

Basically, as well as ruining the Mini, they are downright dangerous except for very short term track usage. NEVER for high mileage road use.

 

Because the Mini is what it is, a wonderful and highly desirable little car, it attracts far more than its fair share of utterly unsuitable products from a money-grasping  but not technically competent or even honest aftermarket, a lot of whose products are mere "snake oil". Caveat emptor...

[jaysmini1983]

 

If a smoother ride is wanted it is simple - don't buy an old classic Mini, buy a modern car with lots of suspension travel and comfort.

lol.

[Cooperman]

To clarify why coil springs were were put onto a classic Mini; they were fitted for pure racing application on what are virtually smooth race tracks. On a race track the smooth surface does not cause the suspension to work to absorb bumps as much as on the road. Thus, when entering a corner, if a stiffer initial rate spring is used there will be far less body roll and this will promote better 'turn-in' and keep the ultra-wide tyre surface flatter onto the road. So they work well and can be single rate. Coil-binding will be much less of an issue and they will not fail as a result of fatigue or over-stressing. 

 

However, on a normal road there are bumps and coil springs are far less effective than the original rubber cone springs. A true rising-rate spring is required and, as Tiger' has explained, this is difficult to achieve. Coil-binding is very unsafe and is likely to happen at full suspension travel.

 

As for coil-overs, they are something I would never consider either. The front damper mountings are not designed to take the spring loads, neither are the mounting pins in the top arms. At the rear, the damper tops are not designed to take spring loads either, nor are the mounting studs on the rear radius arms. Considerable re-design is necessary to accommodate coil-overs and all for no advantage.

[Mini Manannán]

I've got the Mini Delta fast road springs on mine (they were fitted when I got it).  I've decided that I'm going to put it back to rubber suspension.

 

Mines great on a nice smooth road but unfortunately alot of our roads on the Isle of Man are like a Baghdad runway, and although these springs are okay on rough roads, the original suspension is much better at dealing with them.

 

I've just done a comparison after driving my brothers racing Cooper S, and it's just so much better on the roads over here, so that's why I'm going to put it back to rubber.

 

To be honest with springs on a mini, it's trying to fix something that was never broken!

 

I'm in the same boat Steve (inherited some mInitastic springs). Seriously considering putting some rubber cones in.

[Carlos W]

To clarify why coil springs were were put onto a classic Mini; they were fitted for pure racing application on what are virtually smooth race tracks. On a race track the smooth surface does not cause the suspension to work to absorb bumps as much as on the road. Thus, when entering a corner, if a stiffer initial rate spring is used there will be far less body roll and this will promote better 'turn-in' and keep the ultra-wide tyre surface flatter onto the road. So they work well and can be single rate. Coil-binding will be much less of an issue and they will not fail as a result of fatigue or over-stressing. 
 
However, on a normal road there are bumps and coil springs are far less effective than the original rubber cone springs. A true rising-rate spring is required and, as Tiger' has explained, this is difficult to achieve. Coil-binding is very unsafe and is likely to happen at full suspension travel.
 
As for coil-overs, they are something I would never consider either. The front damper mountings are not designed to take the spring loads, neither are the mounting pins in the top arms. At the rear, the damper tops are not designed to take spring loads either, nor are the mounting studs on the rear radius arms. Considerable re-design is necessary to accommodate coil-overs and all for no advantage.

coilovers on the front top shock mount area is truly frightening.

Especially as its normally rotten

[Scousemouse]

I fitted the coil conversion kit on the rear of my 91,998,with hi-lows and adjustable GAZ shocks, best thing I did ,the ride is great.

Still saving up for the front coil conversion kit (couldn't afford both at once)..got the front hi-lows waiting patiently.

Can't wait to have coils all round.

These are NOT COILOVERS, but coil spring inplace of Rubber Doughnuts.

I love em....but each to their own.

I don't run my car on a track,just street + main roads.Even great over speed bumps.

[Cooperman]

Coil springs might work OK so long as the rising rate is correct and they don't coil-bind over bumps, but they quite simply cannot be better than the original rubber cone springs because the rising rate of the rubber springs was exactly matched to the car at the design stage.

Quite simply, there cannot be any advantage.