56 replies to this topic

[Orange-Phantom]

 

Well I can only go from personal experience, my Mini Delta Fast road springs are in place of the standard rubber, they are rising rate, I have hi-lows, I run Protech Shocks which are properly setup and It has recently been corner weighted.  The whole of the suspension on my car is in A1 condition (although I'm still waiting for a set of Rose Jointed suspension components from MRA which I must chase up again).

 

After driving my brothers Racing Cooper S with new Red Dot Rubbers on it and then driving mine, we then both drove each others and then both commented on how much better planted my brothers was.  (They both run on 10 inch wheels too).  I drove my dad's Mini which used to belong to Tony Pond which runs on 12's, and again the drive was just better and more compliant.  Mine is smoother on nice roads but as soon as the bouncier road surfaces arrive (of which there are many) then the rubber suspension was just in a different class.

 

These are just my personal findings, which is why I'm going back to the original design.

 

I've read the blurb on the standard and red dot rubbers and am curious to know what peoples own experience of each would be.  The red dot seems to be more appropriate for my use and after driving my brothers with the same (which drove beautifully) is swaying my choice towards the reds!

Is your dad's ex-Tony Pond Mini a white one with a black roof? If it is then I have navigated it with Tony Pond driving.

What a great drive and super bloke Tony was, It was a sad day when we lost him.

I once flew with Tony's dad who was a flying instructor at Denham and he gave me a check flight in a Miles Magister which I had not flown for some time and wanted to do a long flight in, so I asked him for a check ride.

 

It's not unfortunately, it is a purple/blue metallic colour with a white roof, Mini 30 interior and a custom dash full of Smiths gauges which I love and want to do something similar with mine.  It's a 998 with a modded 12G295 head and Kent 266 cam.  Goes very well for a 1 litre and with it being a Mini well it's just a damm good laugh!  Dad rebuilt it about a couple of years ago so it's in A1 condition now.

 

This car was one of Tony's run arounds so no rallying or anything like that, it does have Tony down on the Log Book as a previous owner, dad knew him, spoke very highly of him too.  I've met him a couple of time when I was a kid and he was always very approachable and just a nice bloke with a god given talent behind the steering wheel.  You are a very fortunate person to have Navigated for Tony but I don't need to tell you that!  I would have given my right arm to have sat in a car with him driving at speed!

Edited by Orange-Phantom, 02 February 2017 - 09:48 AM.

[Cooperman]

I rallied with him when he was first competing in a Mk2 Lotus-Cortina and as an already experienced navigator I found his high speed car control superb. Then I did some events with him in his Cooper 'S'.
As you say, a really great bloke and an awesome driver.

Edited by Cooperman, 02 February 2017 - 10:55 AM.

[Scousemouse]

I will look forward to seeing these graphs! Stuff like that always interests me.

 

The people who are revelling in how wonderful their steel springs are will be telling a different tale when something breaks big time, as it will...

 

"You cannae change the laws of physics, Captain..."

 

"Always look on the BLACK side of life..da dum da da de de da dum"    Beam him up Scottie

[Cooperman]

Personally I don't think a failure of a spring is any more likely than with any modern car unless the Mini's suspension is lowered. I have had a spring snap on my BMW 730d and it was not a big issue.
The point I make is that overall a quality rubber cone spring will always be better than a steel coil spring because the coil spring is a compromise on a road Mini.

[Alice Dooper]

A lot will also be down to how good your dampers are!

When I did the research on the springs that's what I found out. That's why I fitted the GAZ adjustable. Minitastic recommends them too and supplies them with the kit if wanted along with a new set of knuckles. They deffinately need HiLo's.

[Spider]

 

A lot will also be down to how good your dampers are!

When I did the research on the springs that's what I found out. That's why I fitted the GAZ adjustable. Minitastic recommends them too and supplies them with the kit if wanted along with a new set of knuckles. They deffinately need HiLo's.

 

 

If going to coil springs, you do need much better and 'stiffer' dampers than you otherwise would for rubber cones. The rubber naturally has good damping qualities which are lost when going to coils, hence why we here about 'wailing', 'body roll' and '(perceived) softer ride'.

[Cooperman]

To get a softer ride fit adjustable dampers and set them to fully-soft.
Coil springs, or any springs will only give a softer ride with soft dampers. But then you lose both road-holding and handling.
For a soft ride with poor road-holding and crap handling try driving a classic Caddillac (and yes, I have - horrible).

[tiger99]

The nearest thing to the Cadillac I have ever driven, i.e. an American car, was a Chrysler Valiant in Australia in 1976. The Australian government had a fleet of the base model, and we used one at Woomera. The US manufacturers used to shift the tooling for the previous year's model over to Australia and build them there, so the Australians were getting obsolete models. Anyway it was truly disgusting, wallowing over every bump, massive understeer changing to dangerous oversteer seemingly at random, steering with about 30 degrees of backlash at the wheel, an unbelievably inefficient, gutless and uneconomic 4 cylinder engine, manifolds that tended to fall off, a 3 speed column gearchange that sometimes worked, a classic chest-impaling steering column, pathetic brakes..... In short, no redeeming features at all.

 

Which of course why the Japs, with what were at the time fairly boring but reliable cars, decimated Detroit some years later, and various Orientals more recently wiped out Australian car manufacturing. Any industry where the engineers are either completely incompetent or forced by imbecilic marketing people to design trash is bound to fail.

[felixy69]

Go coilover .... I feel that there is actually suspension travels unlike cones or rubber .... seems to just bounce up and down

[Cooperman]

Go coilover .... I feel that there is actually suspension travels unlike cones or rubber .... seems to just bounce up and down

Bouncing up & down is a function of the damping, or lack of it.

 

Coil springs can possibly approach the effectiveness of rubber cone springs, but can never exceed it as the rubber cones are true rising rate springs with the rate designed for the car.

 

The only way to get more suspension travel is to raise the ride height as much as possible.

[maccers]

I've had both - the rubber cones when I became the owner of the car were very old, probably the original ones. Replaced springs and dampers with Mini Tastic kit, new adjustable bottom arms and rear adjustable rear camber brackets. Went to get the whole lot set up and was advised the springs were either going to fail, as in snap, or pop out and generally were not the best for road car. I run the car for a few months with them, decided to replace with rubber cones and found the car a lot more confident to drive. Perhaps I did not give the metal springs enough time. 

I also wanted a solution where you could install it, then leave it. With the rubber springs they will go off over time, I guess rubber being a natural product etc. But i suppose every 6 to 8 years life is ok. All part of the fun of owning a classic car!

[cooperdan]

I've had both - the rubber cones when I became the owner of the car were very old, probably the original ones. Replaced springs and dampers with Mini Tastic kit, new adjustable bottom arms and rear adjustable rear camber brackets. Went to get the whole lot set up and was advised the springs were either going to fail, as in snap, or pop out and generally were not the best for road car. I run the car for a few months with them, decided to replace with rubber cones and found the car a lot more confident to drive. Perhaps I did not give the metal springs enough time. 

I also wanted a solution where you could install it, then leave it. With the rubber springs they will go off over time, I guess rubber being a natural product etc. But i suppose every 6 to 8 years life is ok. All part of the fun of owning a classic car!

 

100% did the same...twice actually!

 

Now ill only buy the rubber cones

[felixy69]

Are there upgraded rubber cones ???
Something for more sport driving ?

[nicklouse]

Are there upgraded rubber cones ???
Something for more sport driving ?

yes. yellow or red dot.

[Spider]

 

Are there upgraded rubber cones ???
Something for more sport driving ?

yes. yellow or red dot.

 

 

And / or for the fronts, you can go to Hydrolastic upper arms, which will also make the rate stiffer.