31 replies to this topic

[matt050990]

Hey all,

Recently fitted Hi-los around along with adjustable shocks.

Got the height set up to the height I want but when I look at the rubber bump stops it's already touching them without the car moving.

If I lift the car so it's clear of the bumpstops it then sits high and I don't like the look.

Is there anything I may have set up wrong or does something else need replacing for it to sit low and not foul?

I've seen some on here / Google that are lower than mine so surely must be something I'm missing.....


Much ta
Matt

[Steve220]

Some people cut down the bump stops however that still leaves you with very little suspension travel and the car will suffer with bump steer. How low exactly is it?

[matt050990]

Yeah I did see that but wasn't keen on the idea.

It's currently about 52cm from height point of arch to floor so not stupidly low.

Spoke to a mate of mine down the road and he said it sounds like I need new cones.

[GraemeC]

You're not missing anything.  

 

(Most) cars you see lower than where you want yours to be probably have the bump stops cut, lifted or removed which actually allows the suspension components to articulate to a point where they are at risk of breaking - if the suspension is allowed to go past the normal bump stop the top ball joint will reach its limit of angular movement and bind up, potentially snapping. A most dangerous situation as you can no doubt imagine.

 

There are other ways to lower the car, but they are much more involved (such as letting the front subframe sit higher in the bodyshell).

 

New cones, although generally a good improvement if they are old, will not allow you to run the car any lower.

Edited by GraemeC, 14 March 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[nicklouse]

Yeah I did see that but wasn't keen on the idea.

It's currently about 52cm from height point of arch to floor so not stupidly low.

Spoke to a mate of mine down the road and he said it sounds like I need new cones.

if you don't like the idea then you are not going low.

 

new cones will not make it go lower.

 

the low cars you have seen will be running on cut bump stops and using  10s to absorb most of the bumps.

 

road car too low is not fun.

[matt050990]

So from the sounds of the above cutting the bumpstops is a no no then.
I've just purchased some new cones as they could do with being done anyway so will see how I can get it then and have to live with it for now
Cheers

Edited by matt050990, 14 March 2017 - 02:19 PM.

[nicklouse]

as you are getting new cones then you have the prefect time to see what id going on with your suspension,

 

after removing the old cone take your time and mark up where the top are moves to. now remove the upper bump stop and mark up what the max position you can go to till the suspension locks up (max ball joint articulation). note that is not really a point you want to be at. now fit your shocks (no need to tighten the bolts/nuts) and do the same. do you get the same result or does the shocks internal bump stop come into play first?

 

now you have an idea just what is low and what will still give you some useable suspension.

 

NOTE. please fit a 1/4" plate under the upper are return bump stop. (or more is you go mad) this is to limit the return travel and keep the rubber and the cone together. Lowered shocks also do a similar thing. Lowered shocks will not however allow you to lower the car more as the top part is basically the same as standard.

[matt050990]

Cheers mate, will come back to this thread once the cones arrive / I get chance to go back in the garage.

[Will16]

NOTE. please fit a 1/4" plate under the upper are return bump stop.

Nick you seem like the guy to ask, and this may well be a very dumb question, but how do you actually 'fit' a plate under the bumpstop? I need to on my new subframe, I though about gluing it in position?

[GraemeC]

Personally I wouldn't attempt to - I'd fit a plate to the underside of the top arm (which is the Special Tuning advised way from back in the day)

[nicklouse]

NOTE. please fit a 1/4" plate under the upper are return bump stop.

Nick you seem like the guy to ask, and this may well be a very dumb question, but how do you actually 'fit' a plate under the bumpstop? I need to on my new subframe, I though about gluing it in position?

If you look at the rebound to rubber it has holes at both ends. Only one is used in fitting but when you raise it it can not be used.

Bit of angle. Hole. Thread it. New hole. Mount it.

A bit simplistic but that is really all there is to it.

[matt050990]

Finally got round to fitting the new cones. Didn't realise how worn my old ones where until I took them out and compared.
Bit of a pig of a job as has to take the top arms out but done now.

Obviously sitting higher as need it all to bed in a bit but hoping I can slowly lower over time.

Seen on here that you can get some 10" wheels to fit over standard discs, any ideas what ones?

Edited by matt050990, 08 April 2017 - 06:12 AM.

[Spider]

I wouldn't post the following unless I was certain of the information herein.

 

 probably have the bump stops cut, lifted or removed which actually allows the suspension components to articulate to a point where they are at risk of breaking - if the suspension is allowed to go past the normal bump stop the top ball joint will reach its limit of angular movement and bind up, potentially snapping. A most dangerous situation as you can no doubt imagine.

 

I too was of the same impression / idea but only based on what others had said.

 

Recently, as part of another project, I actually set up a couple of Subframes and tested the extremities of the ball Joint Movements and at what point they reach lock.

 

In compression, with standard suspension arms, i found that in fact the upper arm can smack in to the bump stop mounting pad of the subframe and both top and bottom ball joints are fine, even when steering through all  normal angles. I would say, this was done by design in case the Bump Stop itself fails.

 

Full extension is another matter.

 

With the Rebound Stop (the L pad) removed, on full extension (droop), in the straight ahead position, both Ball Joints are fine, but have reached their limits. If however, a Steering Angle is dialled in, the Top Ball Joint is fine through all these movements, however, the lower Ball Joint is not , it does bind and if considering the outside wheel on a turn, badly so.

 

I've also noted, most reported broken Ball Joints seem to be the lower one, though, not elusively.

 

When running Neg Camber Lower Arms, this situation gets much worse and seriously so. If more than 1 degree Neg Camber is dialled in, along with the lower Ball Joint, the Top one also reaches it's limits.

 

Reading BMCs and Leylands Special Tuning notes. they recommend fitting a 3 mm spacer plate under the rebound Stop. This is to prevent the Ball Joints from reaching an angle where they'll break.

 

<EDIT: If running Metro Hubs, this aspect must be checked very carefully and while a quality joint, I would not recommend (Metro) Qunton Hazel Ball Joints as they simply do not have enough swivel angle to work in a Mini. These only have 52 degrees of swivel movement and a Mini need a minimum of 56 degrees and I am unsure of their initial mounted angle. Just because the 'fit' doesn't mean they are going to be OK. >

Edited by Moke Spider, 08 April 2017 - 08:20 PM.

[nicklouse]

Nice info.

[Monty400k]

Had my Mini at Kenny Brown engineering in Glasgow recently, had fitted adjustable arms, hilos etc and needed it set up. He found that with the height and arms set where he wanted them it was touching the bump stops, his advise was to drill holes in them to make them softer, they are rock hard! As an alternative they could be cut down but he did say softer more pliable bump stops are available which would help with this...