39 replies to this topic

[Gavroche]

Well, this is not what we wanted to hear haha. Still, thank you for your opinion !

 

Do we need to change both hubs at the same time ? Shall we change bearings at the same time ?

And the most important question : Does the hubs produced by minispare (or whoever) are as shitty as many other parts that don't even fit anywhere (steel quality, bearing surface, ball joints, etc...) ? In case of a yes, I will go for used parts. We are too tired of trying fixing things just to realised the new parts were just badly produced and can't fit.

[greenwheels]

Hello all,

I finally had a bit of time to take a picture. It looks like the surface was sanded due to rotation of the old seat, no?

Thx you for the help!

I know I am due for an eye test, but your picture shows you still have the old lock washer on there to me.

[Gavroche]

We kept the old lock washer because the new ones bought were not fitting well (washer hole below hub hole), and, when mounted, were forcing on the grease fitting head. I'd rather have a used lock washer that fits and does not worn the grease fitting thread. Does it sound legit to you guys ?

[pete l]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only parts that can wear out are the parts that are changed with a new kit.

[nicklouse]

We kept the old lock washer because the new ones bought were not fitting well (washer hole below hub hole), and, when mounted, were forcing on the grease fitting head. I'd rather have a used lock washer that fits and does not worn the grease fitting thread. Does it sound legit to you guys ?

have you actually removed the old lock washer and had a look under it,

 

and the new ones pressing on the grease nipple is a non issue. they bend.

[Gavroche]

Yes we did try with the new lock washer so we did remove the old washer, and cleaned up the hub. Nothing raised our awareness on that part of the hub.

[grizzler73]

No reason to change both hubs, I have never heard bad things about the Minispares ones. As Nick says the tabs are the least of your problems, you can bend them to suit.

[Spider]

If you have Drum Brakes, I think only the RH one is available these days. For Discs, they are both available. BMH have them made and they don't seem too bad.

 

Looking at your photo the interior 'space' of the machining for the ball joint appears rusted / corroded, it could be old grease ??  If it is Rust, it tends to indicate to me that there's been some neglect in the past. I suspect in fact, that is was the rust that caused the hub to wear out in the first instance. At the very least, I would suggest stripping down the other side and thoroughly inspecting it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't even look at the original wheel bearings, if I was to fit up a new hub(s), I'd be fitting new wheel bearings & seals too.

[nicklouse]

Yes we did try with the new lock washer so we did remove the old washer, and cleaned up the hub. Nothing raised our awareness on that part of the hub.

good as some people put the shims under the lock tab so they dont break and can be re used later.

 

and as i said earlier people have been known to find no shims and think nothing of it but they could not shim the new ball joints as there were already some hidden under the old lock ring.

[Gavroche]

Ok so our french reseller told us to just sand the big nut (part 7 on photo first page), and not put the washer. Washer is too soft to be a good solution. Sanding the 2th millimetre looks the best solution until this winter where we will look at the hubs more deeply.

 

He also told us to adapt the ball joint resistance with the tight (so one of the ball joint is tightened at 85Nm to get a good resistance on the ball joint).

[Swift_General]

If your seller is telling you not to include the lock tab to reduce play (if I have understood what you have written correct), this is bad advice. As is tightening the ball joint to get good resistance - there should be very little resistance (at most). I would be investigating this further bearing in mind the critical nature of the part.

[Dusky]

Wonder, where did you buy the balljoints? Datch?

[Gavroche]

I never said that we did not include the lock washer .... we did sand the nut a bit (we needed 2 tenth of millimetre). Our seller just told us that when you can't get the right amount of shims (in term of thickness in mm) and it is either to tight or not enough tight when adding the smallest shim at 100Nm. The best solution was to put the shims, and adjust with the torque.

 

We bought the ball joint at Moss Motor Paris.

[tiger99]

No, it is extremely dangerous to adjust with the torque, so please do not use the car in that condition. You have been given very bad advice by someone lacking some basic engineering competence. That seems to be quite common with Mini ball joints for some reason.

 

They must be shimmed so that the condition of "no nip" (no tight spots over full angular travel) to 3 thou (near enough 0.08mm) end float is achieved at the full recommended torque. Linishing (sanding or grinding on a FLAT surface) the face of the ball retainer to make fine adjustments, if you can't get the setting exactly correct by shimming, is good, and I have done it several times. Set up correctly, and greased regularly, the joints can then last up to 100k miles.

 

But adjusting by torque, either the weakest point, the hub casting where the nut screws on, will be taken beyond its fatigue limit if overtightening, and will fail catastrophically some time later, or if less tight, the ball retainer will be fretting on its thread and will fail or break the locking tab and come undone, again catastrophically. And, if the joint is too tight, the shank of the ball pin fails catastrophically some time later (although I am told that sometimes the ball retainer gets ripped off its thread instead). Following anything except the procedure adequately documented in the Rover manual has killed people.

 

Oh, and the Rover manual shows the shims on the hub, with the locktab on top, so the ball retainer is tightening up against the relatively thick piece of metal, not a 3 thou shim. Usually, when assembled that way, the hole often does line up with the grease nipple, or come close, although some adjustment is permissible. It is not particularly wrong to put the shims on top, if it lines up better that way, but if so the thickest shim should go on top to protect the thinner ones when tightening.

 

In view of the considerable risks involved, if I had a ball joint that was obviously dimensionally incorrect, I would throw it away and get another. It is possibly a counterfeit part, and therefore potentially made of inferior material and dangerously weak. In fact I would throw the whole set away and get a new, properly branded set.

[Spider]

I personally view 'sanding' (or grinding would be a more appropriate operation) the Cup in any way as a bodge fix here.

 

It would only be masking an under-lying problem that needs to be sorted, no less. And the under-lying problem will only get worse as time goes by.

 

No were in any workshop manual that I am aware of does it suggest this action, then again, the same could be said for 'lapping' the joints too.

 

There is a factory torque range, that is used for very fine adjustment of these joints, and that is from 70 ft / lbs to 80 ft / lbs.