30 replies to this topic

[Ethel]

Pretty sure the Metro (Mini) vented discs don't alter track or scrub. They use the same swivel hubs and CV joints to hold the drive flanges on.

[nicklouse]

Thanks everyone, it has certainly given me something to think about. I was a little surprised about the increase in track width on the KAD hubs, that is something I didn't expect. I'm leaning towards the KAD setup but I now have the dilemma over solid or vented disks. The cost difference is insignificant, I would save weight on the solid disks but it seems a shame to go to this expense and not fit vented, even though they are not really needed on the road.

i dont belive the earlier comment about the KAD making the track wider.

 

think about it.

[Northernpower]

Thanks everyone, it has certainly given me something to think about. I was a little surprised about the increase in track width on the KAD hubs, that is something I didn't expect. I'm leaning towards the KAD setup but I now have the dilemma over solid or vented disks. The cost difference is insignificant, I would save weight on the solid disks but it seems a shame to go to this expense and not fit vented, even though they are not really needed on the road.

I have vented 4 pots on mine and I have to say until they are warmed up they are not good at stopping. I've had a couple of times when I've gone out and after just setting off I've had to stop quickly and they're not good at it. Once they're warmed up and I'm driving hard they're great. It all depends what you want them for. For normal road use I'd suggest solid discs, 4 pot calipers and Mintex pads.

[evoderby]

Thanks everyone, it has certainly given me something to think about. I was a little surprised about the increase in track width on the KAD hubs, that is something I didn't expect. I'm leaning towards the KAD setup but I now have the dilemma over solid or vented disks. The cost difference is insignificant, I would save weight on the solid disks but it seems a shame to go to this expense and not fit vented, even though they are not really needed on the road.

i dont belive the earlier comment about the KAD making the track wider.
 
think about it.

With all due respect Nick your comments about unsprung weight just underline the fact you don't understand the concept. As far as the Kad hub not increasing track....I do appreciate this is your belief, the facts however state otherwise.

[HUBBA.HUBBA]

To be fair I have just cooper s calipers with mini sport sure stop kit ( green stuff pads grooved and cross drilled 7.5 inch discs). No servo. The braking is superb. Think the kit was only about £150. Well worth the money.

Edited by HUBBA.HUBBA, 03 September 2017 - 05:58 PM.

[pdaykin]

I'm fortunate enough to have minis which are have 4-pots, 8.4 inch standard and 7.5 inch Cooper S.

I can't honestly say any are vastly better than each other. None of them feel like my everyday cars - if that is what you are expecting you may end up disappointed.

They key for me is using good pads and making sure the braking system is in good condition.

[Spider]

 KAD hubs are uni-directional and therefore have unnecessary weight with double caliper mounting flanges each side, they also increase track width to quite an extent.........

 

....... Both designs benefit from using sealed metro ball joints rather than the nightmare inducing mini type that requires extensive lapping and shimming to get right.
 

 

I'm not sure that the KAD Hubs increase the track, they still fit up with stock Drive shafts & CVs. I think any increase might come with the addition of Vented Discs, but, after talking with Adrian at KAD about these Hubs, he said they were dimensionally interchangeable with stock types. Their blanks are cast in 7075, but I'm sure the Mini Sport ones are from a considerably lesser grade, they do suffer corrosion pretty bad.

 

Just on Ball Joints and going over to the sealed Metro types. They are a great idea BUT be aware that not all are equal, in particular the angle they can swivel through. Some will only go to 48 degrees, the minimum needed for a Mini is 55 degrees. Anything less and you're asking for busted ball joints. This is not a fault of either type, just something to be aware of. I know the QH boxed one don't go far enough and the Delphi Boxed types are fine.

Edited by Moke Spider, 03 September 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[mab01uk]

Some good information on Mini brake choices below from Keith Calver

 

Brakes - Fundamental considerations:-

http://www.calverst....considerations/

 

Brakes - Pad types & choices:-

http://www.calverst....es-and-choices/

 

Brakes - Fitting discs and required ancillaries:-

http://www.calverst....-fitting-discs/

Edited by mab01uk, 03 September 2017 - 09:23 PM.

[minimans]

Why not get the solid discs drilled and slotted? or just drilled. and all this talk of unsprung weight and handling improvements are fine when you RACE a car but for normal spirited road driving you will not notice the difference,

[nicklouse]

 

 

Thanks everyone, it has certainly given me something to think about. I was a little surprised about the increase in track width on the KAD hubs, that is something I didn't expect. I'm leaning towards the KAD setup but I now have the dilemma over solid or vented disks. The cost difference is insignificant, I would save weight on the solid disks but it seems a shame to go to this expense and not fit vented, even though they are not really needed on the road.

i dont belive the earlier comment about the KAD making the track wider.
 
think about it.

With all due respect Nick your comments about unsprung weight just underline the fact you don't understand the concept. As far as the Kad hub not increasing track....I do appreciate this is your belief, the facts however state otherwise.

 

sorry i do actually know quite a bit about it. 

 

please enlighten me about the kad hub increases the track.  i could see the track being changed by their drive flanges if they have changed the distance they stick out over the "normal ones" or if they have moved the CV position out do you need special Drive shafts? they make no mention of this or that they make the track wider http://www.kentautod...-hub-assemblies which for some classes would not be permitted. so would really need it stating.

 

so unsprung weight. what controls it. the spring and the shock. this is after the weight of the corner of the car has been supported. the car can be supported by adding preload to a coil spring while keeping a reasonable wheel frequency and then adjust the damping to suit. change the unsprung weight and dont change the spring rate the unspung parts will move at a higher frequency which will need more damping which can result in the suspension doing things that you dont want.

 

but how this related to a road car i suppose most people just lump it.

 

dont get me wrong reducing Unsprung weight is good. but on its own without adjustments to other parts of the system it may not pay off. i remember drilling holes in the donuts on the front of the cox to reduce the spring rate due to reduced weight and lower sprung weight to get rid of the skipping under braking from the front.

 

[Raggedroy]

Some good information on Mini brake choices below from Keith Calver

 

Brakes - Fundamental considerations:-

http://www.calverst....considerations/

 

Brakes - Pad types & choices:-

http://www.calverst....es-and-choices/

 

Brakes - Fitting discs and required ancillaries:-

http://www.calverst....-fitting-discs/

Thanks for this one, some serious consideration is needed.

 

Cheers

[greenmini1275]

I've got a set of Cooper s 7.5s with standard Cooper s cslipers. I was having a blast through the high peak last week, lots of down hills, I was having to break hard and the brakes were getting some serious fading, almost completely at one point. I was under the impression that vented discs and alloy calipers would solve that or is there an alternative. Oh and it's servo'd.

[mini13]

a few points for the uninitiated regarding the track width, don assune that the KAD hub and metro hub are the same "trackwidth" or the minisport for that matter, IIRC the Metro hub pushes the track width out by a few mm like 3 or 4, not enough to notice in terms of drive sghaft length, and probably due to the bottom arm needing lengthening to offset the  positive camber these give.

 

Kad hub and Mini 8.4" hub should all be very close, and S hub too,

 

Also dont assume S and 1275 8.4 flanges give the same track width,

[HUBBA.HUBBA]

To be fair I have just cooper s calipers with mini sport sure stop kit ( green stuff pads grooved and cross drilled 7.5 inch discs). No servo. The braking is superb. Think the kit was only about £150. Well worth the money.

Forgot to say they do the kit in 8.4 inch too. Another thing to remember is brakes are only as good as the grip of the tyres.(with regards to braking power, not fade)

Edited by HUBBA.HUBBA, 04 September 2017 - 09:17 AM.

[Steve220]

I'd rather **** in my hands and clap than put greenstuff pads on a car. I'm in the middle of a battle with EBC with regards to a pad delaminating on my Audi and almost killing me at speed.

 

I've had to go against the mechanical grain when choosing brakes for my car, 4 pots is the obvious answer due to the potential 2.5x increase in power over the original engine. My knowledge of engineering when it comes to the deeper part of brakes is limited, however vented is there to dissipate heat energy quicker than solid due to the increase surface area of the inner cavity. But this comes with a weight penalty. My issue lies with spending hundreds on a solid disk braking system for it not to be adequate for the increase of energy into the car on its acceleration. Guess i'll just have to suck it and see!