32 replies to this topic

[Earwax]

I have a windage tray on race car ( not the one you pointed to).  IMO  race only part (as above) . The main objective is similar to a crank scraper, keep viscous resistance of oil drag down to help crank spin up quickly. But as a bonus , if you have a part failure , it assists keeping the flinging bits either staying in the bottom, or not making way down to the bottom--- you still need to completely clean and strip etc, but it is thought to avoid additional damage. It is PART of the modifications. In this situation , the journal / bearing holes are checked for full hole alignment and sometimes elongation. The edges of the bearings are shaved on one side to a 45 degree chamfer to assist guide oil around bearings, the oil way to rockers is either widened or in some instances drilled out, the oil holes near the oil pump blended to assist oil flow etc, So oil is assisted getting to the parts in direct feed and assisted getting lots up top to feed back down the lifter bores etc, so not relying as much on splash.  A couple of notes.  A good standard oil pump checked for fit is all that is used ( so no souped up pump) but it is mostly revving around the 7000 rpm. A central oil pick up is essential, The holes in the windage tray by necessity are a compromise between having to allow the oil to drain back down quickly, having to miss all the parts and structures but not allowing gaps big enough for big things to go through.. I have heard of oil surge problems on inline 1275s ( midget with other sump mods etc) but not in a mini setting if well set up.  On a road car without all the other things going on, a windage tray may well be more problematic in oil supply than helpful.  Again , it seems the 60 year old design and function was very good to start with.

[OzOAP]

I use the Guesswork Windage tray in a lot of builds...and hollow oil fed cams so no problem there.

Edited by OzOAP, 26 December 2018 - 11:45 PM.

[apcherry]

 

It keeps oil in the sump instead of it being thrown everywhere by the crank and gears.

 

I'm just trying to understand it all here.

 

Isn't oil supposed to get thrown everywhere, so all the parts get lubricated?

 

Sorry if its a stupid question, but I just want to understand how it works 

 

 

Generally yes - although the critical components will get lubricated from pressured feeds from the pump. As others have mentioned it's a race car / high performance mod rather than for a road car. 

 

As I understand it there are 2 benefits - first chucking oil all around takes energy, albeit only a little but in a race scenario it's all marginal gains, so a very minor performance increase. Second  - running the engine continually at high revs on a race track you want to make sure there is oil in the sump for the pump to pick up. The windage tray will keep more oil in the sump and act as a baffle to reduce the oil sloshing around. As I understand it a similar reason why a central oil pickup is recommended.

[ukcooper]

had one fitted not Guessworks one , it was crap ripped the gearbox off to remove it

[Chris.Williams]

had one fitted not Guessworks one , it was crap ripped the gearbox off to remove it

In was respect was it crap?

[Chris.Williams]

I have a windage tray on race car ( not the one you pointed to).  IMO  race only part (as above) . The main objective is similar to a crank scraper, keep viscous resistance of oil drag down to help crank spin up quickly. But as a bonus , if you have a part failure , it assists keeping the flinging bits either staying in the bottom, or not making way down to the bottom--- you still need to completely clean and strip etc, but it is thought to avoid additional damage. It is PART of the modifications. In this situation , the journal / bearing holes are checked for full hole alignment and sometimes elongation. The edges of the bearings are shaved on one side to a 45 degree chamfer to assist guide oil around bearings, the oil way to rockers is either widened or in some instances drilled out, the oil holes near the oil pump blended to assist oil flow etc, So oil is assisted getting to the parts in direct feed and assisted getting lots up top to feed back down the lifter bores etc, so not relying as much on splash.  A couple of notes.  A good standard oil pump checked for fit is all that is used ( so no souped up pump) but it is mostly revving around the 7000 rpm. A central oil pick up is essential, The holes in the windage tray by necessity are a compromise between having to allow the oil to drain back down quickly, having to miss all the parts and structures but not allowing gaps big enough for big things to go through.. I have heard of oil surge problems on inline 1275s ( midget with other sump mods etc) but not in a mini setting if well set up.  On a road car without all the other things going on, a windage tray may well be more problematic in oil supply than helpful.  Again , it seems the 60 year old design and function was very good to start with.

Excellent, thank you for the info

[Spider]

They really are a Race only accessory.

[Steve220]

It keeps oil in the sump instead of it being thrown everywhere by the crank and gears.

I'm just trying to understand it all here.

Isn't oil supposed to get thrown everywhere, so all the parts get lubricated?

Sorry if its a stupid question, but I just want to understand how it works

No such thing as a stupid question. Even with a tray, you'll be surprised how much oil gets thrown about in an engine.

[DeadSquare]

The oil in an engine does two things.  It lubricates and it transfers heat, especially from the underside of pistons, and looses it through the oil cooler.

 

The oil in the gearbox does two things,   It lubricates and it transfers heat,..........Hang on, where is the heat coming from?  ..............from all that churning of course.

 

Sow?, sew?, So !, Would it be stupid, rather than insert a "windage tray", to take all the oil out of the sump, then, like I say, it won't get heated by all that churning, instead, you know what I mean, it can be cooling in a thin tank with a large surface area and the churning energy can be used, like, to drive the wheels while the oil squirting out from the main bearings will lubricate the gear cogs.

[OzOAP]

Sow?, sew?, So !, Would it be stupid, rather than insert a "windage tray", to take all the oil out of the sump, then, like I say, it won't get heated by all that churning, instead, you know what I mean, it can be cooling in a thin tank with a large surface area and the churning energy can be used, like, to drive the wheels while the oil squirting out from the main bearings will lubricate the gear cogs.

Mark LeMaitre (spelling) ran a dry sumped Mini in BRSCC Modified Saloons with some success in the early 90s. The car is still about.

[ukcooper]

 

had one fitted not Guessworks one , it was crap ripped the gearbox off to remove it

In was respect was it crap?

 

it was bolted thru the case and split the G/box case open on mine and split it photos on here some where

[Chris.Williams]

had one fitted not Guessworks one , it was crap ripped the gearbox off to remove it

In was respect was it crap?

it was bolted thru the case and split the G/box case open on mine and split it photos on here some where

Wow yeah, that’s pretty crap

[mini13]

I'd like to see those photos.

[Steve220]

had one fitted not Guessworks one , it was crap ripped the gearbox off to remove it

In was respect was it crap?

it was bolted thru the case and split the G/box case open on mine and split it photos on here some where

So they tray wasn't the issue, it was the piss poor installation?

[mini13]

???