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#16 Cooperman

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 11:52 PM

The EU - UK 'deal' confirms that all trade is tariff-free and quota-free.

If you receive an official document from the Eire Customs and it has an 'import duty' listed, then it is not legal under the EU's own laws and should be challenged up to your MEP level. That way you will be able to obtain a refund.

You will not be charged UK VAT by a UK-based supplier and the only way your goods may be more expensive is if your own VAT rate is over the 20% in the UK. A UK supplier will not charge VAT, but the paperwork will define the export VAT-free price. It is on that price that your local VAT will be collected by the importer/courier. There may be an administration charge for this service, but it will not be great.

Things will settle down over the next few months as the paperwork required becomes more familiar.



#17 johnyj

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 08:55 AM

If i buy goods from one of the companies that supply mini parts and they have to be sent to Ireland, how much of the stock that those companies hold is manufactured in the UK and how is it determined when you are buying goods where it originated and so how will i know if extra charges will apply or not as the case maybe?



#18 MiNiKiN

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 10:06 AM

 

Hi all, the getting of spares into Ireland from this year on has taken a turn for the worst with the introduction of custom duty and vat on to the parts price. Anything over €22 and under €150 will incur vat on the cost of the order and anything over €150 will incur custom duty and vat on to the order price  so if a parts order cost me €167 last year it will now cost me €230 to €250 which has halted the project indefinitely as i couldnt afford to incur those kind of costs. A lot of fab work will have to take place now. It's a disaster all round. Nothing much in the way of spares over here in Ireland bar the odd stockist of pattern parts. Dont rightly  know what way to go now.

 

john.

A part that cost £167 last year would cost £139.17 this year, as you no longer pay UK VAT on anything you purchase from the UK (providing it is from a VAT registered business).

 

So the part itself is 20% cheaper for you.
 

There is then a slim chance you might have to pay the Irish VAT and/or customs fees on import to Ireland, if your customs department can be bothered to inspect the container/lorry it arrives in.

 

In 6 months time, after all the negative Brexit talk has calmed down in the media and everyone has realised that there countries customs department hardly check anything, everyone will be praising Brexit. :wacko:

 

Apologies if I'm wrong and other countries operate differently to the UK.... but it's estimated that only 1 in 5 parcels (imported into the UK) is checked at customs, I imagine all countries customs systems are very similar. So far in 2021 (since Brexit), we have imported several things and we are yet to pay a single UK import customs charge or UK VAT on them. We find we usually pay customs duty on around 1 in 10 parcels we import (previously, pre Brexit, from Asia and the USA), from non UK VAT regions (which the EU is now classed as).

 

EDIT... a bit to add:

 

The best way to look at it, how often have you ever had to pay customs fees when you have imported something from China or the USA over the years? I imagine, not very often, if at all. It's no different than importing anything from the UK (post Brexit) as it will go through the same process, the UK in terms of import is now classed as "rest of the world".

 

 

Hope you don't believe the stuff you write yourself

 

A part that cost £167 last year would cost £139.17 this year, as you no longer pay UK VAT on anything you purchase from the UK (providing it is from a VAT registered business).

 

So the part itself is 20% cheaper for you.

 

 

 

 

Sorry but you make me lough - every parcel get's checked here in Austria - the customs agencies (the likes of DHL and so) make sure they are checked, because they can so further charge you.
Example Minispares order over ~250GBP ex VAT:

  • Parts and shipping net: 259.68 EUR
  • DHL handling fee gross: 18.00 EUR
  • DHL import handling of 12 lines gross: 42.00 EUR
  • Import duty: 7.62 EUR
  • Import sales tax (20% VAT in Austria): 51.78 EUR

    So my contribution to BREXIT stands at 67.62€ - thanks Brexiteers - wherever possible I will now avoid buying in Britain. It's better to shop local anyway.

     

by the way: I did actually pay customs on items from China every time they were above the 22€ limit. Full stop!
 


Edited by MiNiKiN, 27 January 2021 - 10:08 AM.


#19 roberts

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 11:10 AM

There is a lot of confusion (both here in the UK and within the EU) for something that is nothing new, it's a disgrace that business (here in the UK and abroad) and governments (in the EU) didn't prepare themselves for our exit from the EU sooner.

 

They have had 4 years to prepare.

 

My one comment on Brexit (and this is for someone who voted to remain in the EU by the way - I didn't want to leave the EU, but quite frankly, it's been happening for 4 year, you've had plenty of time to figure things out and accept it), if your country is charging silly amounts of customs charges, blame them, not Brexit. Your countries customs fees is nothing to do with Brexit, they charge the same fees for importing anything form a non-EU country. Your customs department/government sets the customs import fees and if they wanted to, they could have waived fees on UK imports.

 

So here it is, from a UK business owner, a UK business owner that prepared for Brexit a long time ago...

 

Here is all you need to know, simplified and with no mention of Brexit (after this sentence), as we don't need to mention Brexit, as every single country in the World already operates with a post-Brexit UK import/export process.

 

The easiest way of looking at is (if you are based in the EU), the UK used to be classed as "EU" and the USA used to be classed as "Rest of the World". Since 01/01/2021 the UK is no longer classed as "EU" and is now classed as "Rest of the World", this means that importing good to and from the UK is exactly the same as importing goods to and from the USA.

 

If you are buying things from a UK based supplier:

 

  • Before 01/01/2021 you paid UK VAT (currently at 20%) when buying the item (from the UK based supplier).
  • After 01/01/2021 you do not pay UK VAT (currently at 20%) and a VAT registered UK business will no longer charge you the UK VAT (currently at 20%).
  • After 01/01/2021 you now pay (if your countries customs department check the parcels - people within this thread are saying every parcel is checked in some countries, so fair enough - you will have to pay your countries VAT) your countries VAT upon import (when the good arrive in your own country).

  • In some instances this is less than UK VAT and in other instances it is more than UK VAT. Either way, the VAT is irrelevant in this argument - it's not an additional cost that you didn't have to pay in the past, it might just be a little more (if your countries VAT rate is higher than the UK VAT 20% rate).

  • In addition to this and just like when you import something from any other non-EU country in the world (again, if your countries customs department check the parcels - people within this thread are saying every parcel is checked in some countries, so fair enough - you will have to pay your countries customs fees) you will also have to pay a customs fee.

  • This is the new thing, that will be very frustrating, as you didn't used to have to pay a customs fee, when the UK was part of the EU.

  • All paperwork will be completed by the company that export your goods, so you have nothing extra to worry about on that side of things with regards to paperwork.

  • You will receive notification from your customs department (if applicable), informing you that you have to pay the VAT (at your countries rate) and customs fees, upon import of the good.

 

If you are a consumer living outside of the UK, who wants to import something from the UK, the customs fee (in theory) is the only extra cost that you will need to pay for goods you import from the UK. I guess you will need to decide if the customs fee is worth it or not - I see some reports of high customs fees (upon import), so if this now means the same part becomes cheaper within your country, you will buy it from your country.

 

And you know what, that's actually brilliant - as you will be helping to contribute a little more to your own economy.

 

However, I imagine in most cases, this new customs fee, will still mean that Classic Mini parts are cheaper if imported from the UK. Plus, a vast majority of Classic Mini parts are not available outside of the UK, which is why you have always imported them from the UK in the first place.

 

In this instance, this is where it is very annoying though, if customs fees are so extortionate (upon import) and parts are not available from your country, it may mean that people outside of the UK can no longer afford to own Classic Minis.

 

And that, is extremely sad.

 

Anyway, I hope that help to simplify things and explain the process.

 

Out of all this gloom I'd like to end on a happy/uplifting note...

 

Here at Optimise, we haven't had a drop in sales from abroad (since 01/01/2021) and we've actually received emails from customers in both Holland and Portugal, informing us that the goods have been delivered without any additional fees (VAT or customs fees). The customer from Portugal was so delighted at saving so much money that he has subsequently placed another order, for a few extra items because he saved 20% on his initial order.


Edited by roberts, 27 January 2021 - 11:14 AM.


#20 MiNiKiN

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 11:49 AM

Sorry, but still I have the impression you did not read my post. You keep talking about duty and tax.

I personally don't mind the few € import duty, I happily pay the VAT (as in the UK previously, now in Austria). And don't feel the need to thwart the taxman. 

 

What I complain about is the handling fee DHL, UPS, you name it take for customs handling. You cannot escape it, as they don't bother too much about complaints.
Mind you, the vendor/sender has done everything right (Bill of sale outside on box, country of origin, EORI-No.)

And you and your customers where yet seemingly lucky, because I know of many other continental customers with a similar to mine or worse experience.



#21 roberts

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 12:00 PM

Sorry, but still I have the impression you did not read my post. You keep talking about duty and tax.

I personally don't mind the few € import duty, I happily pay the VAT (as in the UK previously, now in Austria). And don't feel the need to thwart the taxman. 

 

What I complain about is the handling fee DHL, UPS, you name it take for customs handling. You cannot escape it, as they don't bother too much about complaints.
Mind you, the vendor/sender has done everything right (Bill of sale outside on box, country of origin, EORI-No.)

And you and your customers where yet seemingly lucky, because I know of many other continental customers with a similar to mine or worse experience.

 

The handling fees charged by the private courier company (in your instance DHL) are the same thing but different, as customs fees, the fees they charge basically cover the extra work involved to process imports from non-EU countries.

 

Couriers such as DHL (and other large couriers) have there own import facilities and they do not pass through government customs departments.

 

So as your goods have been delivered by a private company, this work is carried out by them (acting on behalf of your countries customs officials) and not by your governments customs department.

 

You basically get the same bill, but with a different name on the invoice. But yeah, you are likely right and they no doubt also add a premium onto it, as they are a private company.


Edited by roberts, 27 January 2021 - 12:09 PM.


#22 Magneto

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 04:28 PM

Interesting reading.....

 

Like roberts says, they have had 4 years to get this sorted in a way that people can understand and deal with, it's a shame that it's not but that's our world these days.

 

I've seen small increases in prices for stuff I buy from England for the Minis I fix - I ascribe that to increased cost for them to import it.

 

Other than that things seem to be moving along just fine between the UK and the US, otherwise you're right - I wouldn't be able to work on them anymore.

 

I seem to only get hit for customs fees on orders over $1000......



#23 johnyj

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 04:47 PM

I agree with the fact that there is confusion but the majority of the confusion seems to from UK companies that are selling into the EU and their failure to understand their role in it. It is however 

not in the least bit surprising seeing as that the UK government spent the last 4 years rejecting every proposal that was put to them adding the line that "no deal was better than a bad deal" mantra that was trotted out over and over again and as a consequence how could any trader have a system in place to accommodate the UK leaving  the EU when the government in charge didnt have a clue which way they were going with it, Also to say the EU governments that you singled out in your response should have had protocols in place, what were they to do?  guess what the UK were going to do in the end? 

 

The couriers that are supplying the goods purchased in the UK are supposed to collect the duty and vat levied on goods if there is any to be collected or the delivery wont be completed.

Also on the VAT nobody is disputing having to pay it but the vat is not just on the part as you seem to think but on the overall cost of the transaction which is the part, any shipping cost, insurance , and duty if applicable and then you apply the vat @23% which may be significant depending on the cost of the transaction.

 

 

 

The 25% duty that appeared from nowhere on steel imports into the North Of Ireland wasnt flagged by the UK government  until traders were hit with it out of the blue. That is the responsibility of the UK government not the EU so if blame is to be apportioned start at your own door step first. My first and only point was that it will be more expensive to buy parts from the UK post Brexit and that has been borne out so far  as being correct and most opinions stating that isnt the case is from people in the UK while the actual experiences of people that have bought from the UK proved that it is.

 

Brexit is entirely the prerogative of the UK if that is the way they want to proceed and good luck to them , that is their right to do but saying that EU governments are to blame for the problems is a strange statement. The UK decided to leave ,nobody asked them to go.

 

John



#24 roberts

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 05:47 PM

I agree with the fact that there is confusion but the majority of the confusion seems to from UK companies that are selling into the EU and their failure to understand their role in it. It is however 

not in the least bit surprising seeing as that the UK government spent the last 4 years rejecting every proposal that was put to them adding the line that "no deal was better than a bad deal" mantra that was trotted out over and over again and as a consequence how could any trader have a system in place to accommodate the UK leaving  the EU when the government in charge didnt have a clue which way they were going with it, Also to say the EU governments that you singled out in your response should have had protocols in place, what were they to do?  guess what the UK were going to do in the end? 

 

The couriers that are supplying the goods purchased in the UK are supposed to collect the duty and vat levied on goods if there is any to be collected or the delivery wont be completed.

Also on the VAT nobody is disputing having to pay it but the vat is not just on the part as you seem to think but on the overall cost of the transaction which is the part, any shipping cost, insurance , and duty if applicable and then you apply the vat @23% which may be significant depending on the cost of the transaction.

 

 

 

The 25% duty that appeared from nowhere on steel imports into the North Of Ireland wasnt flagged by the UK government  until traders were hit with it out of the blue. That is the responsibility of the UK government not the EU so if blame is to be apportioned start at your own door step first. My first and only point was that it will be more expensive to buy parts from the UK post Brexit and that has been borne out so far  as being correct and most opinions stating that isnt the case is from people in the UK while the actual experiences of people that have bought from the UK proved that it is.

 

Brexit is entirely the prerogative of the UK if that is the way they want to proceed and good luck to them , that is their right to do but saying that EU governments are to blame for the problems is a strange statement. The UK decided to leave ,nobody asked them to go.

 

John

 

 

I haven't blamed anyone, for anything. I've simply explained the new process of import and export between the UK and the EU. The EU could have waivered the customs fees if they wanted to, but they chose not to.

 

Here in the UK we did get the deal we wanted, we basically tuned down everything the EU offered, knowing we were in a position to do so. However, we don't make you (the EU) charge a customs fee, charging that customs fee is the EU's choice.

 

I knew 4 years ago what was going to happen when we left the EU, I find it astonishing that governments around the EU and multi national businesses around the world appear to now be in chaos working it all out. I'm not even clued up on that kind of thing, but it was clear to me that we would become just like Switzerland (another non-EU European country), when dealing with countries in the EU - in terms of importing and exporting goods.

 

The UK has been running advertising campaigns for around about a year now, with regards to "get your business ready for when we leave the EU" and our government has provided all of the relevant information for that entire time.

 

I got Optimise ready for leaving the EU back in August and if any UK business is confused by it all, they only have themselves to blame.

 

The finalisation of things over the Christmas period didn't change anything that I finalised in August and (like I've said a few times), the UK is now a "rest of the World" country and we trade with the EU in that manor.

 

If we've (the UK) known what was going to happen and advised our businesses to get ready for it, surly the EU could and should have done the same.

 

It really is, that simple I'm afraid.

 

 

EDIT: You used to pay VAT on the full amount of the transaction, including the item shipping etc. Nothing has changed there, VAT was charged on the goods, delivery, fees etc. pre-Brexit, to you, here at the point of sale in the UK. You now pay the VAT on the same things, but in your country.


Edited by roberts, 27 January 2021 - 05:58 PM.


#25 se7enmvu

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 05:47 PM

I agree with the fact that there is confusion but the majority of the confusion seems to from UK companies that are selling into the EU and their failure to understand their role in it. It is however 
not in the least bit surprising seeing as that the UK government spent the last 4 years rejecting every proposal that was put to them adding the line that "no deal was better than a bad deal" mantra that was trotted out over and over again and as a consequence how could any trader have a system in place to accommodate the UK leaving  the EU when the government in charge didnt have a clue which way they were going with it, Also to say the EU governments that you singled out in your response should have had protocols in place, what were they to do?  guess what the UK were going to do in the end? 
 
The couriers that are supplying the goods purchased in the UK are supposed to collect the duty and vat levied on goods if there is any to be collected or the delivery wont be completed.
Also on the VAT nobody is disputing having to pay it but the vat is not just on the part as you seem to think but on the overall cost of the transaction which is the part, any shipping cost, insurance , and duty if applicable and then you apply the vat @23% which may be significant depending on the cost of the transaction.
 
 
 
The 25% duty that appeared from nowhere on steel imports into the North Of Ireland wasnt flagged by the UK government  until traders were hit with it out of the blue. That is the responsibility of the UK government not the EU so if blame is to be apportioned start at your own door step first. My first and only point was that it will be more expensive to buy parts from the UK post Brexit and that has been borne out so far  as being correct and most opinions stating that isnt the case is from people in the UK while the actual experiences of people that have bought from the UK proved that it is.
 
Brexit is entirely the prerogative of the UK if that is the way they want to proceed and good luck to them , that is their right to do but saying that EU governments are to blame for the problems is a strange statement. The UK decided to leave ,nobody asked them to go.
 
John


I don't think the majority of people who voted for brexit and I'm one were concerned with scenario you describe.

Being a self governing nation without the suffocating bureaucracy of the EU is much more important. As has become apparent this week with the EUs vaccine fiasco.

I'm no fan of the UK government but they were correct to not accept the 1st deal offered to them by the EU. The confusion of the last 4 years has as much to do with Brussels as it does London.

It may cost you slightly more and that's unfortunate but mini parts aren't that expensive in comparison with some other marques. A small fee from a carrier isn't that important in the scheme of things.

#26 se7enmvu

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 05:48 PM

Duplicate reply

Edited by se7enmvu, 27 January 2021 - 05:49 PM.


#27 johnyj

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 06:47 PM

Well i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.






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