12 replies to this topic

[goat64]

Hi all

 

Newbie here. Excuse lack of technical terms.

 

Just un-SORN'd 45 yr old 850 mini for my son to start learning on. In the days when it needed MOTs, a recurring advisory was "loose n/s steering rack".  Whenever I asked what this meant and what needed doing about it the response from 3 different garages was consistently:

 

 "Oh, don't worry about it, it's not important, not a safety issue and unlikely to threaten MOT certification for  many years" (low annual mileage).

 

None of them seemed at all keen to take my money to fix the problem, even non-urgently, which is unusual for garages!

 

When driving over rough surfaces (cobbles, rumble strips, our aggregate-surfaced drive) , it rattles like a good-un, from n/s under engine area, which I'm told is due to this "loose rack". It sounds and feels truly awful; metal-on-metal rattle. No rattle on normal roads (the bits between the potholes).

 

Steering functions fine (it would have failed MOTs otherwise). There is an obvious looseness of the n/s steering rod (the rod that connects the bottom of the steering column to the wheel) at the end nearest the steering column (furthest from the wheel end). I can't see the loose bit as it is under an intact rubber gaiter.  The looseness here is about 5-10mm. If I grab  hold of the rod and rock it up and down as hard as I can, it moves at the inner rubber gaiter end about 5-10mm and reproduces the rattle I hear when going over uneven ground.

 

Having consulted Haynes, minispares and a youtube video or 2, I'm pretty sure it is the rubber bush (original). I understand these have a fairly limited life and are replaced by nylon versions which are longer-lasting. The other end of the n/s steering rod seems fine, as do both ends of the O/S rod. Tie rod bushes, drive shafts and wheel bearings all seem free of any play, which makes them unlikley causes of rattle. I'm loathed to replace the whole rack (which is the widely accepted rememedy for any and all steering noises) as there is only 1 bit that is worn, and complete replacement is well beyond me.

 

One of the youtube vids (from "Italian Rust") shows the steering rod bush being replaced without having to remove the whole rack (which is beyond my limited expertise), but it needs some special gadget, like a modified U-clamp. He called it a "tie rod removal tool",  even though he used it on the steering rod, not the tie rod. It can apparently be used to unscrew the union in which the bush sits, i.e. the bit which is loose on my mini. The video didn't actually show the use of the tool, just where to position it and the end result.

 

So, is this something I can sensibly tackle myself, if I invest in this special tool (approx £10)? 

To me, that sounds like quite a job, but looking at it, each individual step is do-able by an amateur DIY-er like me, I think!

 

Has anyone ever done this (replace bush) wothout removing whole rack?

 

If this is "tiger country" for a relative novice, especially if it might risk safety, I will try and pursuade a local garage to do it.

 

Any advice / tips gratefully received.

Goat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cooperman]

There is a bush in the rack tube adjacent to where the LH track-rod is fixed to the rack end.

Originally the bush was made from fely and these used to wear and the rack would rattle. It was changed for a plastic bush sometime during the 1960's, about 1967 I think).

On cars with the plastic bush, these also wear akd allow the 'rack rattle'.

However, it is possible to fit new ones, although it is a bit of a fiddle.

It's a very long time since I did this, but from memory, you remove the wheel & the track-rod-end. Then remove the LH rack gaiter (oil wil run out - but don't worry). The ball joint linking the track rod to the rack can then be removed.

The bush sits inside a steel sleeve and the outer edge of the sleeve must be gently prised down. The bush can then be accessed and there is a small grub screw through the rack body which holds the bush in place. Remove this and the bush can be dug/prised/persuaded to come out.

A new nylon bush is available and can be fitted into the sleve. the end of the sleeve needs to be flanged over again after fitting with a small end punch. However, it may be that if the grub screw is removed the sleeve and bush can be removed together and replaced.

Don't forget to put oil, ideally EP80, in the rack when re-assembling. Jack the LH side up quite high and not much oil comes out.

From memory, I think I used to manage to fit two nylon bushes into the sleeve.

If you find an illustrated parts catalogue it will show this in detail. Mini Spares might have an illustration, but I've not looked.

[minimat]

Sounds like the issue my girlfriend has with hers, there is also movement in the n/s steering arm. Problem is its a 66 mk 1 and nobody lists mk 1 racks and I'm not sure if later ones will fit or work , i saw that somerford sell just the outer steering arms but dont list the years , would these cure either of our issues?

https://www.somerfor...-rack-rods-pair

[Cooperman]

Sounds like the issue my girlfriend has with hers, there is also movement in the n/s steering arm. Problem is its a 66 mk 1 and nobody lists mk 1 racks and I'm not sure if later ones will fit or work , i saw that somerford sell just the outer steering arms but dont list the years , would these cure either of our issues?

https://www.somerfor...-rack-rods-pair

If it is a worn bush as described above, then new steering arms will not cure the problem.

You need to jack the car up, remove the wheel and the LH steering gaiter and inspect to see where the movement is coming from.

It is probably that bush and it can be replaced as described above.

[minimat]

That's great thanks , the play is on the n/s of the rack at the inner joint inside the gator so maybe it is the bush assuming mk 1 have them?

Has anyone any ide on the difference beetween mk 1 racks and mk 2 onwards for example are the splines on the column the same?

[GraemeC]

The Mk1 rack requires different steering arms on the hubs to the Mk2 onwards racks.

The spline for the steering column is the same, as are the threads for the track rod ends (although the longer ones available are always a worthwhile upgrade if yours are tired and need replacing).

[Spider]

The early MK I racks had the felt bush, after that they went to a plastic bush.

The steering won’t fail from this bush being worn but it will cause it to pull to the driver’s side when accelerating and to the passengers side when off the gas pedal.

In the how to section, there’s a guide to rebuilding racks.

[minimat]

Great info thanks so if i ever have to fit a mk II rack i have to fit 67 onwards steering arms to match, that make sense. All this is assuming that the current rack hasn't got the plastic bush mentioned by cooperman which is the fault and i probably wont know without dismantling it.

[cal844]

I don't know if it's the same check as the later racks, however I check the play by unclipping the rack end boot, then with the rack end exposed, give the socket joint a generous heave up and down and fore and aft, play is usually evident.

Ideally upgrade the Bush and change the full rack end from the ball joint out to the rod end.

The overhaul procedure is detailed with great images in the FAQ section

Edited by cal844, 10 May 2021 - 09:37 PM.

[goat64]

Thanks for replies, espec Cooperman.

 

Here is the link to the vid by "Italian Rust" showing how to get at the bush without removing the rack, and even without removing the track rod end (to preserve tracking:

 

It looks the same as my Mk 3 850cc, although back-to-front (LH drive in vid), and I've not been brave enough to remove the rubber gaiter yet.

 

The film proper starts at 1:30 and finishes at 9:15, so very short and sweet.

Sadly he has already done all the dis-assembly; he is just showing us what he did, after he did it!  Still very useful though.

 

The "special tool" appears 1st at 3:43.  I think this is a "tie rod release tool". The type shown in the film is hard to find online. There is a more widely available version, which looks flimsier, more like something I might clamp to my bicycle handlebars to hold a light or something. Easy to find on ebay. These typically advertise "27mm to 42mm".

 

Has anyone used one of these to release the inner ball joint without removing the whole rack?

Will the more common version do the job as well as the one in the vid?

Is "27-42mm" size going to be right for the ball joint housing?

 

Cooperman mentions a grubscrew through the metal sleeve into the bush. I can't find this on diags and not mentioned in the vid. What have I missed?  If there is a grub screw securing the bush, can this be accessed OK with rack-on-car?

The Italian vid shows (at 7:00) how to fidget the old bush out by an assistant turning the steering wheel whilst you deliberately misalign the ld bush with a screwdriver. No mention of grub screws. Also no mention of re-flanging the steel sleeve. Peraps he just assumed it was so obvious he didn't mention it.

 

I may have confused the issue by muddling up "bush" with "spacer"?  The thing I suspect is perished and loose is called "steering rack spacer" on minispares (37H8064), not felt or plastic bush (which I think is more to do with the column).

 

The relevant minispares diag is here:

http://www.minispare...ack.aspx?1~8~72

The bit I think is perished is labelled "3"

 

Also Cooperman:

You mention possibly squeezing TWO spacers in.   Doesn't that risk binding on the ball joint when the housing is screwedback tight?

 

Depending on response to above, I may risk trying it myself! If I do, i shall report back.

If I chicken out, what sort of garage estimate should I accept (ball-park)..... 1-2 hrs labour?

 

Thanks again for responses.

 

Goat

[goat64]

Looks like my link to the vid has fallen foul of filters. If you want to look at it, search for the title:

"DIY How to rebuild the Classic Mini steering rack (without removing it)"

on your favourite vid sharing site.

 

Goat

 

[Cooperman]

The Mini Spares picture seems to be as I remember it. I think the small locating screw can just be seen, but that may only be on early racks.
From memory it was possible to leave the sleeve in place, knock back the small flange, pull out the felt bush and push two of the nylon bushes in (or was it three?). Then the small screw went back in, the flange knocked over again, the track rod re-fitted, the gaiter re-positioned, oil added, the gaiter clip (now a tie-wrap) put on and 'jobsagoodun'.
It's year's since I did one though and 'memories may vary'.

[goat64]

OK, Thanks. I will ponder it for a bit and see if I give it a go.

 

Do I understand you replaced the spacer with the rack still on the car?