34 replies to this topic

[DeadSquare]

 

 

Sounds immensely complex for sums to come up with anything more reliable than a suck it 'n see approach. I guess a simple  comparison of bearing width would be fairly indicative - i.e. 3x30mm mains being 9/10ths of 5x20mm mains in load capacity (as far as the oil 'n white metal  goes).  What about crank flexion with narrower mains? It might actually be better at avoiding binding, but correspondingly nasty for vibration & fatigue.

 

Will the bearing shells sit centrally on the webs? Just 5mm over overhang would likely take some abuse and transfer it in to the block/caps - that could be the weak link if 3 have to do the work of 5.

 

Take it you're brewing something exotic to sit on a Mini transmission? Bolt on crank tail as an alternative???

 

I have to get at least the centre web wider, to take the thrust washers.

 

Can a tail be bolted on without the block being shifted forewords and having a spacer between the block and the Transfer case ?  

 

I have looked at friction welding a tail onto the crank.

 

MED do a 75mm throw, five bearing crank, which would be ideal, but it is probably £3,000.

 

Before lashing out, this would be a working mock-up that I'll test in my Mini Pick-up to see if it all hangs together.

 

You have seen this haven’t you? https://www.amedm.co...uring-progress/

https://www.facebook...00051214636757/

 

No, Thank you, I hadn't seen that.

I did hear a couple of years ago, that someone might be doing an aluminium block, but I've been hearing that for 50 years !.

[DeadSquare]

 

 

 

 

I have to get at least the centre web wider, to take the thrust washers.

 

Can a tail be bolted on without the block being shifted forewords and having a spacer between the block and the Transfer case ?  

 

I have looked at friction welding a tail onto the crank.

 

 

Before lashing out, this would be a working mock-up that I'll test in my Mini Pick-up to see if it all hangs together.

 

 

 

Yes, I was also thinking of the Ford conversion in the Vizard Book.

 

I'd be amazed if you  could squeeze anything in to run the Mini primary/ transfer arrangement. But, bolting up the transfer case, sorting the oil pick-up etc could well make good use of some extra end space anyway. A taper has proved enough to give us a problem getting the flywheel off, so maybe one could contribute to keeping a crank & tail together

 

 

 

 

The first time that I saw a Ford conversion, was when I noticed a starter motor on the wrong side of a Mini clutch housing.  It was on the grunt end of an SCA mounted on a Mini gearbox at Janspeed.

 

There had been an advert in Autosport for a UnipowerGT (Cash, bring your own wheels), which I had agreed to buy, but When I arrived at the factory in Perivale I was told that it had already been sold.  Six weeks later, I found it.  Jan had bought it and was fitting a Formula 3 engine.  I have often wondered what he did about the oil pickup and pump.

 

I know what you mean about the flywheel.  Clive Trickey was always asking Jan for ideas to write up in "Car and Car Conversions", so sometimes Jan would play a little joke which he presumed would be seen through.  One wasn't.  Clive recommended Loctiting the flywheel to the crank !

Edited by DeadSquare, 20 December 2022 - 12:41 PM.

[stoneface]

Not sure it is relevant to what you're doing but, as someone with the Ford conversion I can say, if you put an adapter on the end of a ford crank you have to move the block and use a plate between the transfer case and block.

 

Or you have to get a custom crank made. I had a quote in 2020 for a custom crank and the cost was £4,000 + VAT. Plus extra gearbox work.

 

I do have a photo of a crank where it looks like someone brazed a taper onto the end but I can't confirm it or it's integrity.

 

Regarding thrust washers, I had to fit a steel center cap and machine it to take extra thrust washers as the mini clutch killed them without the extra load bearing face. The ford block only has one half of a thrust washer as standard.

[mini13]

I Have heard of cranks being welded, Spoke to someone years ago who raced minis when they very first came out, at the time the only other A series's were the 803 and 948, they used to get the 948's and weld possibly Braze?) the mini tail on to make a bigger motor.
aparently tey used to break a lot ( suprise) but were faster than the 850's

Edited by mini13, 21 December 2022 - 12:01 PM.

[stoneface]

Ford crank with what looks like brazed taper.

 

 

[DeadSquare]

I Have heard of cranks being welded, Spoke to someone years ago who raced minis when they very first came out, at the time the only other A series's were the 803 and 948, they used to get the 948's and weld possibly Braze?) the mini tail on to make a bigger motor.
aparently tey used to break a lot ( suprise) but were faster than the 850's

 

 

I read about that years ago, and did hear later that it wasn't very successful.

I knew someone who cut the tail off a 1275 crank, welded a flange and raced a Midget, when Midgets were only 1098.  That was successful.

 

Before the 997 came out, people used to make an 848 into a 975cc by bore and liner to take plus .080" Hepolite pistons from the 1200 Austin Devon.

 

When the 1600 Triumph Vitesse came out, I did the same, but used its plus .060" pistons to make a 999cc.

[DeadSquare]

Not sure it is relevant to what you're doing but, as someone with the Ford conversion I can say, if you put an adapter on the end of a ford crank you have to move the block and use a plate between the transfer case and block.

 

Or you have to get a custom crank made. I had a quote in 2020 for a custom crank and the cost was £4,000 + VAT. Plus extra gearbox work.

 

I do have a photo of a crank where it looks like someone brazed a taper onto the end but I can't confirm it or it's integrity.

 

Regarding thrust washers, I had to fit a steel center cap and machine it to take extra thrust washers as the mini clutch killed them without the extra load bearing face. The ford block only has one half of a thrust washer as standard.

 

 

I have thought of cutting an Ice-cream type of cone into the crank and a taper on the tail, and brazing it, but the joy of friction welding is that far less heat is involved and therefore much less chance of distortion.

[stoneface]

I can't vouch for the brazed crank picture and if it worked ok, it's just one of many I've collected to do with the ford conversion. My own conversion uses the bolt on tail, which has the advantage you can replace it if it gets damaged without the cost of a new crank. But you do lose 2" of engine bay.

 

Friction welding is certainly a great way to go if you have the equipment or know someone that can do it. Not something you can normally do in your shed. Not the size of a crank anyways.

[DeadSquare]

Interesting post about the 2 cylinder BDA.       I know that I shouldn't mention it here, but I have been toying with the notion of sitting a 3 cylinder " Bini " engine on a Mini gearbox.

 

What is your Ford engine ?

 

[stoneface]

Interesting post about the 2 cylinder BDA.       I know that I shouldn't mention it here, but I have been toying with the notion of sitting a 3 cylinder " Bini " engine on a Mini gearbox.

 

What is your Ford engine ?

1700cc X-flow

 

[DeadSquare]

 

Interesting post about the 2 cylinder BDA.       I know that I shouldn't mention it here, but I have been toying with the notion of sitting a 3 cylinder " Bini " engine on a Mini gearbox.

 

What is your Ford engine ?

1700cc X-flow

 

 

Mmmm.  Plenty of torque there.  Have you had any problems with the gearbox ?

 

With front wheel drive it is much easier to induce wheel spin, which dissipated the torque load in the gear train, unlike a mid engined rear wheel drive.  With my proposed alluminium block engine, there are a potential 220 turbo BHP, and I am wondering if the gearbox may become a weak link in my mid-engined UnipowerGT.

[stoneface]

No issues with the gearbox although just rebuilt it with an ATB diff and gone back to standard gears and helical transfer gears. Got rid of all the straight cut gears. Not because of any mechanical issues just the noise and poor gear ratio for road use. Not driven it yet so can't comment on its relaibility/driveability yet.

 

The biggest issue was the crank thrust bearings which wear too quickly with only standard x-flow ones on the block only. I've recently added steel caps and fitted thrust bearings on both block and centre cap so now have top and bottom bearings (full 360 degrees) so it should fix that issue.

 

I'm not running a turbo just multi point injection, so don't have the sudden power shock you're more likely to have with forced induction. Also, only 112 lbft and 132bhp

 

The mini turbo boys & girls are putting much more than me through a standard gearbox, but I expect a lot comes down to driving style and not booting it all the time.

Edited by stoneface, 23 December 2022 - 11:48 PM.

[DeadSquare]

After a lot of thought, and peering into my "piggy Bank", I Emailed MED Racing Technologies Sales and asked, Dear Sir, if I were to buy one of your £3,995.00 Multi-web crankshafts, how much extra would it cost to machine the 2 dummy Main bearings ?

 

To be fair, the journal diameters that I need, differ slightly from an A-series, but it was very disappointing to receive a swift reply, " Hi Thomas, Sorry, this is not something we'd be able to undertake".

 

Does anybody here have any 'clout' with MED ?

[nicklouse]

After a lot of thought, and peering into my "piggy Bank", I Emailed MED Racing Technologies Sales and asked, Dear Sir, if I were to buy one of your £3,995.00 Multi-web crankshafts, how much extra would it cost to machine the 2 dummy Main bearings ?

 

To be fair, the journal diameters that I need, differ slightly from an A-series, but it was very disappointing to receive a swift reply, " Hi Thomas, Sorry, this is not something we'd be able to undertake".

 

Does anybody here have any 'clout' with MED ?

Their cranks come from Arrow. Go direct.

[imack]

Their cranks are machined for them by Arrow Precision. Unfortunately MED do state somewhere, either in one of their videos on crank manufacture at Arrow or on their website that they can't do any 'one offs' or custom work.
For a few years now, and especially since moving premises I don't think MED do much machining in house anymore or even engine building or producing modified heads which is a real shame.
They do have some beautiful components though.
Have you spoken to Arnold at KAD? He seems to love a challenge and is really enthusiastic. He's got some real interesting A series and non A series engine machining going on down there, might be worth a call.
KAD manufacturers virtually all their products in-house, including gear cutting and is a proper mix of old school and modern technology.

Edited by imack, 07 January 2023 - 12:07 PM.