18 replies to this topic

[KevinS]

Hi all. I've been working on the rear subframe, brakes, suspension etc on my 1990 998 saloon whilst the subframe remains in situ. However now I'm having a problem with fitting the new PWZ207 flat washer onto the subframe support pin. The washer will not locate onto the support pin because it touches the subframe. Can anyone confirm if the flat washer has to be located in its correct position against the subframe before the support pin is slid through as opposed to support pin installed first then fit flat washer.

Many thanks.

[nicklouse]

I am lost on which end of the subframe you are working on.

The only big washer is the one on the back.

But there is no pin to slide about as it is part of the subframe. No big washer on the front.

 

pics of your problem would help us understand what you are doing.

[KevinS]

Hi nicklouse,  I've been confused too.

 

However after further investigation, I believe I know the answer to the problem I posted. If you take a look at the minispares parts diagram that shows PWZ207 and the Subframe Support Pin, it shows a PWZ207 washer to be fitted on the end of the Subframe Support Pin. This is incorrect. In addition and detailed within the same diagram, it also shows the large single trunion bush being installed in a way so that the large end rests against the head of the Support pin when in fact it should be located the other way round, wide part of Bush to subframe. 

 

I cannot take credit but thanks to Josh Willis at JW Mini Services in Ashford for pointing out the errors I was making.

 

Regards

[nicklouse]

Never use a part diagram as fitting info. Use a workshop manual.

[stuart bowes]

do you mean the front one or the rear one

 

no 9 at the bottom, is that the bit you're referring to (is that front bush in 2 parts ? I'll have to have another look now actually I thought it was one piece pressed in,  pretty sure there would be a lip on both sides otherwise not held in firmly..)

 

the washer goes on the inside face of the subframe before the nut

 

back end diagram looks fine ?

 

(edited a few times due to working from memory ..)

 

it also looks like It's pointing the pin towards the hole where the radius arm pivot comes out which is a bit misleading

Edited by stuart bowes, 27 November 2023 - 04:12 PM.

[KevinS]

Hi, errors are in the front drawing. Have been told that part 9 is GFK1116 and not PWZ207 as stated. Front part can be 1 piece in rubber or 2 piece poly. I've elected for a 1 piece in rubber. Yes I agree, front drawing is misleading.

[stuart bowes]

Ah yes. I was just a bit confused when you said wide part of the bush to subframe side, I was thinking, wide part on both sides

Edited by stuart bowes, 27 November 2023 - 06:56 PM.

[Bobbins]

The post ‘76 bush is only wide on one side. I usually fit the wide side outboard.

[stuart bowes]

He's right you know I went and looked which is what I should have done in the first place, and yeah it's one sided.. kind of ribbed so you push in from one side and it stays there.

Outside edge having the lip definitely makes more sense to me as well (and looking at my parts the head of the large pin isn't really big enough to act as a washer I.e not sufficiently larger than the hole in the bracket) so I would agree

Unless anyone can give us a decent reason why that's wrong

Edited post above to remove misleading info

Edited by stuart bowes, 27 November 2023 - 07:06 PM.

[Bobbins]

IIRC the structure of the subframe at the bolt entry point doesn’t really allow the large side to be inboard.

[KevinS]

Examples of how the large single Bush was fitted at the factory.

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[Bobbins]

That’s the opposite way round to how I’ve fitted them. You can see clearly on the first photograph how the large flange becomes distorted by the subframe if fitted that way round, the subframe end doesn’t have a flat area big enough for the bush flange. Could that be British engineering at its best!

[stuart bowes]

I'm going back and forth on this one now... see now I'm thinking with the wider part outboard, the frame can in theory move left to right slightly (although unlikely in reality due to boot floor fixings but still..)

 

whereas with the wider part sandwiched in between frame and bracket, the frame is snugly held in between the two points.  I suppose it's easy enough to slightly trim one edge so it fits more neatly?

 

I would be a lot happier if it was a 2 part bush, like the rear ones, then you get a lip both sides

Edited by stuart bowes, 28 November 2023 - 10:10 AM.

[nicklouse]

The way Rover fit them in the workshop manual. Also Note number 3 standard plain washer no big washer.

Edited by nicklouse, 28 November 2023 - 08:12 PM.

[nicklouse]

 

 

I would be a lot happier if it was a 2 part bush, like the rear ones, then you get a lip both sides

Then just use the old setup as that used the rear setup at the front.