63 replies to this topic

[Utopian2]

 

From reading 200+ related threads on the forum, it seems like nobody knows with any degree of certainty.

That's because we aren't the ones holding the multi-meter. It's now down to systematically checking pretty much everything from the battery onwards.


If you aren't getting any volts except across the two battery terminals then there is a serious break in the wiring somewhere. Normally this would be handled by the fuses but there are more that one fuse box and some inline fuses on these ater cars.

Not sure about fuseable links in the wiring ... not worked on an MPI.

Get someone to hold the multimeter on the battery while you try starting the car and see what happens to the volts. It should start at around 13.6V if it's a good battery ...


You mentioned you couldn't find the solenoid.

One type is mounted on the starter motor which should be easy to find to the left behind the grille.

The other type will be mounted in the engine bay and can be found by following the big thick cable back from the starter. The other side of it goes back to the battery. That side should register 12-13v if tested to earth.

That's your starter for 10 ...

 

Thanks for replying, I will venture out with my multimeter again tonight.

 

 

What did you make of the open circuit on the LH reverse contact on the loom, when the others all others showed an ohm or two. Is the circuit not complete unless the car is in reverse?

 

RE: FWIW: Fusible links, I had to remove one once and on another car, they didn't look anything like the inline fuse listed on MiniSpares:

https://www.minispar.../PM09.aspx?0905

 

More like an 8 - 10 inch strip of enclosed metal with various outlets - an £80 -100 item.

 

The inline fuses are a £2.53 item and are 'under the scuttle panel', according to MiniSpares - so fingers crossed for that...

 

 

 

[Utopian2]

P.S. I don't think the MPis at least don't have a fusible link. Some people mention them, but it looks like they mean the 4 big 30 Amp fuses under the bonnet.

An easy mistake to make, they are doing the same job afterall.

[KTS]

 

 

RE: FWIW: Fusible links, I had to remove one once and on another car, they didn't look anything like the inline fuse listed on MiniSpares:

https://www.minispar.../PM09.aspx?0905

 

More like an 8 - 10 inch strip of enclosed metal with various outlets - an £80 -100 item.

 

The inline fuses are a £2.53 item and are 'under the scuttle panel', according to MiniSpares - so fingers crossed for that...

 

 

..a handy post in the Electrical FAQ section on fusible links

 

https://www.theminif...ernator-wiring/

[Utopian2]

I would like to apologise to all for posting incorrect information about Fusible Links.

As I couldn't see anything under the bonnet that I recognised and, more importantly, the fact that MiniSpares don't sell them led me to make a false conclusion. Them being part of the loom makes sense, if a more costly possible diagnosis.

Thanks for the link to the electric FAQ section, and the information therein.

Edited by Utopian2, 09 April 2024 - 05:43 PM.

[Utopian2]

I have been looking at this from the wrong angle.

Sorry for wasting people's time.

The information in the Electrics section is excellent, and probably holds the information needed to find the fault.

I should have started reading there before posting elsewhere.

I have read the multimeter guide, and it seems I'm ok with that - in theory.

I don't have the space, access to another car, or ability to raise the car that seems necessary to follow and find the fault, or buy parts in person.

I just can't believe I could create a fault so easily on a car that has been so well restored and looks brand new, both inside and out - only to be turned into a non-stater with one careless wire and the lack of a battery isolator.

Yours, wiser, but demoralised.

Utopian

[Utopian2]

P.S. The spell checker makes me look (more) stupid than I actually am.

I can read & write in real life - honestly...

[Utopian2]

Post mortem:

I found what I believe is the inline fuse underneath the scuttle plate, but it has been so well waterproofed, I couldn't say for certain.

On other cars they have just been a white fuse holder at some point along the wire (like the MiniSpares link above), easily identifiable, a simple bayonet connection, with the fuse removal a trivial matter.

Having been updated with the news that my Haynes manual will be delayed by 10 days, I have made contact with the closest Mini specialist regarding a repair.

The first time I have been defeated by a car fault in 35 years of driving - gutted.

[tmsmini]

Pretty sure standard MPi don't have any inline fuses unless they have been added.

I have attached a picture of the fusible link with the coverings removed and PDFs of the power distribution and charging/starting circuits.

Attached Files

•  MPi_fused_link-web.jpg   69.7K   2 downloads
•  RCL0194ENG-cdxn990e Electrical Circuit Diagrams-power.pdf   60.86K   2 downloads
•  RCL0194ENG-cdxn990e Electrical Circuit Diagrams-charging-starting.pdf   38.6K   2 downloads

[Utopian2]

Fixed!

 

Cost of fix - £10.

 

 

If anyone is interested, I'll post it on here - if not, I'll just spend the evening not working on the Mini with a smile on my face

[KTS]

..always worth posting the solution to a problem  - it'll doubtless help someone else out of a hole at some point

[Utopian2]

I'm sorry to say that people might not learn much, and it's a bit embarassing, but here goes.

 

I spent the last two evenings reading up on the electrical side of things.

As part of this it was mentioned that you should always check your multimeter before each use, I hadn't does this for a few years (that's Lexus for you...), and they had always checked out fine.

 

When touching the points together, I got a figure of around 0.5 Ohms - rather than zero or near-zero and not far off the reading when testing each fuse.

I also read about 'Phantom Draw' (or 'Drain'), which suggested that the battery may have been constantly running down all the time I was trying everything else (again the duff multimeter not helping much).

 

So, as a last attempt before sending it to the Mini specialist, I thought I'd take the battery out and charge it in the house, to keep an eye on how discharged it was.

It took 10 hours to fully charge a bog-standard ~40AH Halford's battery, obviously meaning that it was completely flat (6 Amp (rms) charge).

 

Anyway, so I put the charged battery in and tried the car this afternoon - the lights etc worked, which suggested it wasn't as bust as I had assumed, but still no cranking.

 

I figured that just replacing every fuse & the battery would be a small fraction of a tow away and repair, so I got a lift to the little side street car parts place, bought the specified bag full of fuses and a Yuasa 075 Battery with a 4 Year Warranty (from GSF).

 

I unscientifically replaced all the fuses in the car and it started first time, on the 'original' battery!

 

So, a big thanks to 'KernowCooper' for his encyclopaedic knowledge of the Mini's electrical system, and electrics in general.

 

Although the old battery was able to start the car, KernowCooper states that a battery once completely flattened, it isn't worth having, so I think I'll put the Yuasa 3000 075 one in it's place - £69 from GSF as a 'click and collect' price seemed ok, and ups the capacity by a third to 60AH.

 

But it was the fuses that did it - for £10!

 

I'm only sorry I can't add much to the pool of knowledge, without having identified the specific fuse causing the fault - but at the price, who cares really.

Thanks everyone, and good luck to you all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stuart bowes]

well in a way I'm glad it turned out to be just something daft and not a major drama, we all learn as we go along eh

[gazza82]

I'm sorry to say that people might not learn much, and it's a bit embarassing, but here goes.
But it was the fuses that did it - for £10!
 
Thanks everyone, and good luck to you all.

Umm ... post #2 ... ;) 
 
 

 

[Utopian2]

 

I'm sorry to say that people might not learn much, and it's a bit embarassing, but here goes.
But it was the fuses that did it - for £10!
 
Thanks everyone, and good luck to you all.

Umm ... post #2 ... ;) 
 
 

 




 

 

If you read my posts, I had checked all the fuses as 'working' with the multimeter, and visually.

 

If I respond to anyone else's similar problem, I would suggest they 'change all the fuses and replace them with glow fuses'.

The short and longer term benefit make it a no-brainer, in my humble opinion.

 

The money involved compared to the time taken diagnosing makes me think other members are even meaner than I am...

[Davidmt]

I just use a multimeter to check for continuity across a fuse as quicker than removing and more reliable than a visual inspection unless obviously blown.

If a fuse has failed then there is no continuity. I don't think there is a need to change all the fuses. Just check them properly but glad you have resolved the issue.