33 replies to this topic

[Jammy]

I have a Metro 1275. Changed the flyheel and clutch for a pre-Verto set up, Utralite flywheel, steel backplate and orange diaphragm. Changed the clutch cover for a mini one with pre-Verto clutch arm and pre-Verto slave. Before putting the engine in I dry assembled the flywheel/clutch assembly using the correct width spacers (between the flywheel and drivestraps) to ensure the drive staps were level.

The problem I have is that I can press the pedal down to the floor, the pedal feels good put it doesn't feel like there is a bit point at all. I get a decent amount of travel at the slave, but not much at the plunger. The pedal doesn't pump up at all, so I doubt there is any air in the system. I have blocked off the M/C which gave me a rock hard pedal, and changed the hose for a new Goodridge braided item. The slave was bone dry inside.

I've tried packing the slave with nuts of different sizes, to give me a bit more travel. I've wrapped the ball joint end of the clutch arm in insulation tape in case it was worn, and it still doesn't want to disengage the clutch. I've tried two different clutch arms, plungers and clutch covers. The two large nuts on the end of the plunger have been taken off, and the adjusting bolt half way up the arm has been screwed in and out!

I've taken the clutch cover off and the ?thrust plate? is in the correct way round, with the step pointing out, towards the inner wing.

Anyone have any ideas why the clutch still won't disengage?

[Ethel]

release bearing?

pivot shaft in the operating arm?

friction plate right way round?

clutch return stop (the bolt in the wok under the arm)?

[Jammy]

Well I've tried two different plungers, both with different CRBs. Both plungers and bearings look identical, neither look worn..

What do you mean by pivot shaft?

Would the fricton plate being round the wrong way stop the clutch from disengaging?

[ginigwunkle]

have you checked the thrust bearing for wear behind the primary gear?(measure the primary gear and c-washer gap with feelers)

the gap should be 3-6 thou any more and will cause dissengagement problems...)

source miniexpert book

[ginigwunkle]

by the way clutch wouldnt go on with plate the wrong wy round! would hit flywheel...


return stop should be 20 thou gap...

is there wear on the slave puch rod?

long arm wear?

also have you tried driving as you say ''the pedal feels good put it doesn't feel like there is a bit point at all.''

just changed mine this afternoon and theres no feel of biting but it does work...

Edited by ginigwunkle, 15 September 2007 - 09:37 PM.

[Ethel]

by the way clutch wouldnt go on with plate the wrong wy round! would hit flywheel...

Very likely true, just chucking up ideas.

I meant the pin that holds the arm to the wok.

[Jammy]

Clutch definitely doesn't disengage, it just crunches gears.

Slave push rod not worn, or at least not the problem as I've put a nut in the slave cylinder to pack it out.

Arm not worn either, as I've changed that, plus wrapped the ball joint in tape, no play in it what-so-ever.

Besides, its almost feels like the clutch plate doesn't want to move or something.

With the clutch cover off, should I be able to move the diaphragm, with a large pry bar for example. Because I can't...

[Sprocket]

Got to say if there is any wear what so ever then replace with new, the parts are not that expensive.

This could be a combination of many things, verto slave? worn arm? worn plunger, worn pivot pins? worn master cylinder?

It does not take much to cause problems, and when i say not much we are talking about 10 thou slop in the actualting mechanism. To check for slop, remove the slave cylinder from its mount, back off the throw out stop nuts, gently pull the arm away from the engine until it stops, if you were to mentaly draw a line between the slave cylinder mounting bolt centers, the tip of the push rod should be in line with this. If it is towards the left side of the line there is wear in the system and you will have problems getting it to work, if its to the right of the line the friction plate and surfaces are worn or the clutch has not been initialy set up right.

[Sprocket]

Oh and if everything looks good mechanicaly the problem is the hydraulics

[Jammy]

Yea, wanted to replace loads of it today, but haven't been able to get hold of any parts! My only option would have been a 2 hour drive each way to Minispares!

I know its not ideal, and it was never going to be a permanent solution, more just something to help me rule out possibilities, but wouldn't the nut in the slave cylinder allow for any wear in the push rod and pivot arm?

[ginigwunkle]

where are you trying?

try on the big circle ring in the middle but it needs to be some force! getting the leverage will be troublimng.

[Jammy]

Yea, thats what I was aiming for. My bar was a good 3 foot long!

[Ethel]

Got to say if there is any wear what so ever then replace with new, the parts are not that expensive.

This could be a combination of many things, verto slave? worn arm? worn plunger, worn pivot pins? worn master cylinder?

It does not take much to cause problems, and when i say not much we are talking about 10 thou slop in the actualting mechanism. To check for slop, remove the slave cylinder from its mount, back off the throw out stop nuts, gently pull the arm away from the engine until it stops, if you were to mentaly draw a line between the slave cylinder mounting bolt centers, the tip of the push rod should be in line with this. If it is towards the left side of the line there is wear in the system and you will have problems getting it to work, if its to the right of the line the friction plate and surfaces are worn or the clutch has not been initialy set up right.

Interesting - would that be with the push rod resting on the transfer casing between the bolt holes?

Don't forget the hydraulics are self adjusting the piston in the slave cylinder will only return as far as it's pushed by the rod.

I think the verto and non verto cylinders are the same bore but not 100% sure.

[Dan]

Masters are the same, slaves very much aren't.

As Ethel says the hydraulics are self adjusting by virtue of a non return valve in the master. This can all be caused by the system needing to settle in and you can use the self adjustment to force it all together. Wind the return stop out and then pump the pedal and you will see the point the arm returns to moves. Do this until there is almost no travel and it is keeping the clutch open all the time, then reset it back to where it has the required gap from being relaxed and no more. That should have settled all the parts into each other and get it working.

[Jammy]

Yep, wound the stop out, and pumped the clutch, but I still don't think the plunger was making the clutch plate move at all! :CONFUSED: