27 replies to this topic

[mighty_mini]

well did a bit of searching and it seems people from vortex have been on lots of forums bigging up their product but not providing proof that it actually works.

I read through the 9 pages and two vortex employee's later these two paragraphs came stuck in my head....


"I think we are now bound to deduce from this that they are liars and cheats, they do not have "hundreds" of happy LandRover owning customers, and as they have failed to take up the "prove it" challenge, that consequently their products cannot stand up to scrutiny, and are therefore probably not worth buying."


"In view of the total absence of response from the Vortex people to our perfectly reasonable suggestions about "before and after" trials of their product, and their claims of hundreds of satisfied LandRover customers using Vortex exhausts, I take it that we may now conclude that they were telling lies, that they do NOT have hundreds of satisfied LandRover owner customers, and that their products do NOT produce the claimed gains, and than it a few words they are liars, cheats and snake oil sellers.

They can sue me if they don't agree."


EDIT - by the way, this came off the Landrover forum..lolz

Edited by mighty_mini, 03 June 2008 - 12:06 AM.

[roofless]

from their website

only needs a few revolutions of the engine for it to start functioning, ridding the engine of backpressure.

I thought back pressure was a bit important ?

[mighty_mini]

obviously not

[roofless]

obviously not

brilliant ! I'm taking the exhaust of roofless then - I'll do vertical take off now

[mini93]

obviously not

brilliant ! I'm taking the exhaust of roofless then - I'll do vertical take off now

lmfao!

[Oldskoolbaby]

Another load of C**p im afraid. Eliminating back pressue is tosh and the last thing you want to do is create disturbances in the flow of the exhaust gasses.


Running a larger bore manifold reduces low end torque because the runners are bigger and reduce the backpressure. Peak torque will be shifted further up the revs. SO i cant see how eliminating backpressue would help in any way.

And before someone gets clever, yes regardings turbo's exhaust are much more irrelivant (after the exhaust housing), but thats due to the nature of its design.

Your very right concerning the difference between a turbo engine and a N/A engine. On a turbocharged engine, a lack of back pressure is very important. Any back pressure down stream of the turbo only decreases how much boost the turbo can produce and how quickly it can make it materialise. Many balls out turbo race cars have practically no exhaust. Take a walk around Goodwood and you'll see twin turbo v12 Le Man cars with exhausts no longer than a foot or so. The old F1 turbo screamers had inches. Im adding a turbo to my 16v 1380 and the pipe for that will exit from just behind the front wheel to help with the lag, over all power and the amount of boost the turbo can reliably make.


As for the Vortex exhaust, what a load of tush!!!! Bare in mind that, to create a vortex you must change the direction/flow of the gas passing through it. Any change in direction of exhaust gasses causes them to slow down and therefor produce back pressure..... am I wrong?

Edited by Oldskoolbaby, 10 June 2008 - 10:18 PM.

[mighty_mini]

I had a PM today from vortexexhausts. Why they didnt reply here i dont know.. but it reads :


Hi

I read your comments and will privately make a few suggestions. The vortex system was approved by the BRC as an alternative to particle filters. The car that we first sponsored in the BRC this year is a BMW120 diesel. The engine and everything to do with the engine and turbo is standard, and the gearbox is standard. The only modification it had apart from suspension and radiator mods was a vortex exhaust. That car won the diesel and R3 class in the Pirelli beating all the 2WD petrol cars. I saw the torque line after the vortex was fitted and it was significantly better than the previous map they had.

If you want to know more ask the tuners "Red Dot" in Watford. Ask "Torque Exhausts" in Enfield. We are also putting this technology on ships, trucks and many other applications. By the way we have a considerable amount of proof it works. I think what you may not realise is that engines lose a great deal of power and economy to backpressure. Our product is simple: by creating a vortex in the exhaust system the vortex resonator takes that gas pressure away and allows the full power potential for an engine. It is easy to measure: a big drop in engine head and manifold temperature, zero turbo lag on turbo powered cars and a drop in emissions (recorded by MOT stations across the country).


I cant be bothered to argue weather its here or there, but i cant see it myself. I'll let you all decide truth from exhaust placebo

[stevenford_uk]

surely if the case Vortex is putting across for their product is true that less back pressure is better we should all completly remove our exhaust manifolds and get massive increases in power and double our torque.
Vortex - Do you have any CFD flow data for the exhaust? maybe this would shut us all up and give you the credit you may deserve for developing this amazing breakthrough in exhaust technology.

IMHO - it cannot possibly at all ever create a vacuum in the exhaust, i have just finished my degree in performance car technology and that goes against every single theory there is about flow dynamics and normally aspirated engine tuning.
The exhaust backpressure on a normally aspirated car is necessary, there is valve overlap as the cams rotate and without the back pressure the intake charge inside the cylinder as the valves overlap would flow out of the exhaust valve causing a massive loss of efficiency and therfore torque, and as we know torque = power. as for turbo applications i can only see it hindering the escaping gas.
i would love for you to correct me

[Oldskoolbaby]

0 lag on turbo cars???? what a *******!!! lmao!! Subaru, Citeron and the rest of the wrc spend millions a year trying to eradicate lag when all they needed was a pricey exhaust. He Better ring Prodrive up and tell them to stop using anti-lag and fit one of these bad boyz lmao!!!! As for Red Dot in Watford, ive been down there regularly over the past year with my mate getting a Seat Leon Cupra R remaped and when it came to pushing out nearly 280bhp and we considered fitting a better system, the recomendations certainly weren't for a Vortex lol.

Edited by Oldskoolbaby, 18 June 2008 - 10:39 PM.

[stevenford_uk]

its absolutly rediculous and it cant work

[chairchild]

I've seen a cutaway of one of these before - and I think it was redline mag that actually done some tests!

All it is, is basically a few fan blades, welded to the insides of an exhaust - it'll spin the exhaust gasses round certainly, but it wont create a "vortex"




And IIRC, on EVERY test, it was DOWN on power!

[paulrockliffe]

And IIRC, on EVERY test, it was DOWN on power!

Well of course it was down on power, if you put a fan in a gas flow all you do is spin the fan and create turbulence, which is extra friction that the engie has to over come one way or another to get the exhaust out of the engine.

Second and third laws of thermodynamics are your friends here.

[mini93]

(having not seen constriction just going on whats said...i assume theres a fan in them then lol )
not sure what the laws are, but any restriction is going to slow down gasses.
try putting ur foot over the end of the tail pipe, its slowing gasses down the fan would have to rotate faster than the gasses passing it to draw out gasseshich isnt going to happen unless you have a motor in there