44 replies to this topic

[scrog]

opps can of worms springs to mind
1) i am not going to steal a mini
2) have owned the 65 ( names on the log book) for well over my god just looked 12 years how times fly
3) would all be new running gear (basicly all brand new(but sure i could find some thing in the shed of the original car))
4)looking at this shell
Rally Sport Replicas Mini Sprint
This Mini Sprint replica body is now being produced in fibreglass by Rally Sport Replicas of Northampton, as part of a range of Mini shells and panels. It was previously sold as the "Stewart & Ardern" by Hawk Cars until court action by BMW which was still selling the Real Mini at the time. (Photo courtesy of Rally Sport Replicas)


Dvla were happy to issue the 1964 plate as non historic.does that mean you pay road tax! naughty

Edited by scrog, 28 May 2008 - 08:25 PM.

[dave20046]

the best thing to do, is do as you feel is right for you and keep your gob shut. I know a guy with a vtec mini its a 1990 'auto' shell with a 1966 cooper plate and painted on external hinges, hes been on mini dvd's, 3 minimag features, etc etc and no-ones batted an eyelid. his actual coopers been laid up for 20 years in a field!
yes alot of people onhere know him well. but it works for him. so its up to him at the end of the day, as its up to you now.

until he crashes me thinks

[Jammy]

This Mini Sprint replica body is now being produced in fibreglass by Rally Sport Replicas of Northampton, as part of a range of Mini shells and panels.

RSR went bust a good couple of years ago now, and good riddance! Have a search for why not many people want them around.

[Jammy]

ive bought this up many a time on here about ringing and so on. Im forever geting grief about my 64 plate on a newer internal hinged shell. back in the day it was common to reshell with a later unregistered shell. o and mine wasnt reshelled in 79, it was 69 sorry! told a fib there, the paperwork says 69. i got confused somewhere.
but yes, ringing is ringing although if you hadnt bought it up, no-one would have been any the wiser when you had your old plate on your new shell.

Don't want to be pedantic, but your shell is a mid-late 80's one, so I'd think it was reshelled later than '69.

That kinda backs up my whole argument, people are being sold stuff that's not what they think it is, all because of people ringing vehicles. Also (further backing up my point) you've got several photos on a very popular mini website, showing the Reg. number on the vehicle. This is why it's all wrong. I'm not for 1 minute saying that you've done the ringing, or been party to it. But it really does highlight the point!

nope not late 80's shell but all mk 5 non genuine panels as i could not afford genuine. at one point one side had external hinges and one did not....long story! the ONLY thing remaining of the second 1979 shell is the bulkhead which has also been modified. almost every panel has been replaced on the car by myself or the previous owner. not only that i have reciepts from the first and second reshell. first reshell june 69 second dec 79. first shell was £18 second shell £98 from williamsons rover. bear in mind all the panels ive replaced are MK5.
how does a reshelled by a rover dealer car consitute a ringer? are you possibly hinting that all my 3 restored cars are ringers?
the 1960 has a non 1960's rear panel but its never been reshelled, i have been accused of ringing it though.

Its a shame nothing of the 1964 Mini remains on your Mini....

[charminbear]

All this chat about re-shells.....

Does this mean that because my 1980 Mini has an MPi floor that it will be seen as a ringer??

[mab01uk]

As has been mentioned before who really bothers about this, if it does bother you then buyer beware, the DVLA have bigger fish to fry than worry about a relatively few low value old Minis of interest only to a minority of enthusiasts/anoraks...............you would need dozens of old Minis to match the value of just one cloned modern Range Rover Sport or Porshe Cayenne for instance!
The MGB, Land Rover, Range Rover, VW Beetle and classic Motorcycle world as well as most motor museums like Beaulieu are full of log book rebuilds using assorted old and new parts.............any old mechanical machine is just a collection of parts which are difficult to trace as original. Does anyone really believe that all those historic race and rally cars are always the unmolested original cars first built .........

[jack_marshall]

Working in the classic car industry, you really would be shocked at the amount of 'ringers' there is.

There is not many special or famous classic cars that are what they're meant to be.

At the end of the day, if you own an early car and a late car, and you decide to do a shifty swap, thats your own choice and risk you take. But you havnt stolen anything, and if your honest when you come to sell it then do as you please.

Mabo1uk is so right. At work we have painted and done bodywork on alot of the world famous works MGA rally cars. None of them are what they seem. Originally they were aluminium bodied. Most have been reshelled, by MGA, back in there day, into steel shells. Most have been crashed that many times they have had chassis swapped. So explain how that is original and right? Yet these still get authenticated by the DVLA and other bodies, as original and sell for ridiculous money.

Its a very frowned upon area, but if they havnt stolen anything, just leave them to it. Go and find a real problem to complain about.

Edited by jack_marshall, 28 May 2008 - 11:57 PM.

[mini_kel]

If nothing has been stolen then i can`t really see a problem,It`s just getting another old mini back on the road!!!

[mini_turbo_pete]

do what ever you want mate just dont tell people on here as im sure there MI5........or dvla..lol

I agree with Modyboy on this one, just as long as the original car isn't stolen i can't see a problem with it.

[Geehawk]

If nothing has been stolen then i can`t really see a problem,It`s just getting another old mini back on the road!!!

Its not so much stealing as forgery.

And there is no arguement that would stand up in court to make it okay. Regardless as to whether people get away with it or not, reshelling a car from just a logbook, or using a 2nd hand shell is illegal.

You are not "getting another old mini back on the road" you are taking a car which is already near roadworthy (otherwise why use it's shell) off the road and replacing it with something which is not what it seems to make it appear more desirable.

[scrog]

found this on the dvla web site
kind of answerd my own question
and meny others i hope
Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts
In order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

motorcycles must use:
Unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle; forks, wheels and engine or gear box.

If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.
Kit Cars
Where all the parts of a vehicle are supplied new by the manufacturer. Subject to the provision of satisfactory receipts and a certificate of newness these vehicles will be registered under a current registration mark.

Kit cars which have been built using not more than one reconditioned component will also be registered under a current mark. This is subject to the provision of satisfactory evidence that the component has been reconditioned to an "as new" standard. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required.
Kit Conversions
This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

[mini_kel]

If nothing has been stolen then i can`t really see a problem,It`s just getting another old mini back on the road!!!

Its not so much stealing as forgery.

And there is no arguement that would stand up in court to make it okay. Regardless as to whether people get away with it or not, reshelling a car from just a logbook, or using a 2nd hand shell is illegal.

You are not "getting another old mini back on the road" you are taking a car which is already near roadworthy (otherwise why use it's shell) off the road and replacing it with something which is not what it seems to make it appear more desirable.

There are loads of shells for sale without ID,so whats the problem! If he is going to use some of his old parts also!

I think the topic should be closed as this is going to go on forever!!!!

[shyrob]

Iwill kill you know!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e...E:IT&ih=018

[Dan]

Nobody who remembers the heartache and distress that was caused to so many Mini owners about 5 years ago by that little gang that Mini World busted would laugh off ringing so lightly. This was proper organised crime with people from within the Mini enthusiast community going about shows and putting together lists of the cars and parts they wanted to steal from so many of us, stealing them later, ringing them and disposing of them overseas. I know it seems that if you have a car and you want to fiddle with its reg or identity just to make it a little more interesting or desirable that you aren't really hurting anyone and nothing may well have been stolen but it's still fraud. How are the legal system supposed to make a distinction between you and the gang? The same rule has to apply to everyone because that's how the law works.

Yes Scrog you have answered your own question. I'd really like to know where on the DVLA site you found that information because this question comes up quite often and every time I search the DVLA for the definitive answer I get redirected the the Direct Gov site. Unfortunately that site only carries old and out of date information about the points system under which it was perfectly legal to use a second hand or non-original shell in certain circumstances (still wouldn't apply to you though as you are essentially building a brand new car). If you use all new running gear as you said above then your car is going to be considered new and will need an SVA. The good news is that it will then be counted as a brand new car meaning no MOT for three years and all the other associated benefits.

Edited by Dan, 25 June 2008 - 07:16 PM.

[liam-ds]

ringing is only macking a duplicate of car thats on the road etc getting a smashed up bmw x5 worth 30 thousand pounds that needs resheling and is a cat D what a ringer will do is go and steal another bmw x5 same coluor and interior trim they will then cut off the chassis number and engine numbers of the smashed up x5 and put them on the stolen x5 thats ringing

you are not ringing you are just rebuilding a car that you own anyway only the cars that need to be dvla approved (vichle identificaion check) are cat c damaged cars

rebuild the car whit a heritageshell so all you are doing is rebuliding your car

Edited by liam-ds, 25 June 2008 - 08:14 PM.