34 replies to this topic

[marsy]

So we need to know if you have (contact) breakers then!

How many (thin) wires go from the coil to the distributor?

no i dont have contact breakers

i have two wires from coil to distributor

[Ethel]

Well if it's electronic ignition it won't need a ballasted supply. Can't really offer much more advice, you'd need to know the make & model of the electronic ignition 'n even then there's not much you can do test it.

[marsy]

Let's go back to the basics.

Mark and remove the low-tension wires from the coil.
Place your meter in Ohms mode to measure resistance and place the meter leads across the coil's low tension terminals.
(AGAIN... no wires should be on the low tension coil terminals during this test)
If you measure close to 3 Ohms, you have a standard coil. If you measure 1 to 2 Ohms you have a ballast coil.
Find the wire going to the coil from the ignition switch.
(What color is it? The feed wire to a standard coil is "white", the feed to a ballasted coil is "pink". )

Reconnect ONLY the ignition switch feed wire to the coil V(+) .
Connect a jumper wire between the coil's V(-) terminal and earth.
Switch on the ignition. Measure between coil V(+) and earth. Tell us what voltage you measure.
(A standard ignition will have coil V(+) at 12V, a ballast system will show 6-9 volts on coil V(+). )

If you haven't read the PDF link on points ignition systems please do so.

1. the reading of ohms was 0.9
2. the voltage was 9.5 volts
3. i have a white wire wire feeding the coil (well i didnt and but then i did and it reads 9.5v)

i had the white wire connected to my oil pressure switch oops!
but i cant locate the wire that goes to the oil pressure switch now tho.

this is probably my problem the car wont fire up then, would it?

as i got a live feed to coil from fuse top terminal 1, but when i did that test it read 4.0v (when i done the test with the jumper lead)

Edited by marsy, 01 August 2008 - 10:01 PM.

[dklawson]

At this point I'd suggest you sit down with a wiring diagram for your car, review it, consider your finances, and make some decisions.

If you measured 0.9 Ohm across the coil's low tension terminals (no wires attached) you have a ballast coil. You have not set up wiring for a ballast coil. Frankly... I don't know what damage you may have done hooking a ballast coil up to an electronic ignition module without the ballast resistor/(resistor wire). I don't know how you test the ignition module so others will have to chime in.

As I see it, you can add a ballast resistor (or resistor wire), add a bypass wire from the solenoid, and fit a different distributor with points. OR... you can fit a new standard coil... and probably replace the ignition module on the dizzy you have.

Whichever direction you choose to go you need to make the wiring appear like it does in a Mini's wiring diagram (point or electronic ignition).

[marsy]

At this point I'd suggest you sit down with a wiring diagram for your car, review it, consider your finances, and make some decisions.

If you measured 0.9 Ohm across the coil's low tension terminals (no wires attached) you have a ballast coil. You have not set up wiring for a ballast coil. Frankly... I don't know what damage you may have done hooking a ballast coil up to an electronic ignition module without the ballast resistor/(resistor wire). I don't know how you test the ignition module so others will have to chime in.

As I see it, you can add a ballast resistor (or resistor wire), add a bypass wire from the solenoid, and fit a different distributor with points. OR... you can fit a new standard coil... and probably replace the ignition module on the dizzy you have.

Whichever direction you choose to go you need to make the wiring appear like it does in a Mini's wiring diagram (point or electronic ignition).

hmm didnt think it sounded quite right, thanks for your replies guys

so how would i go about wiring in a ballast resistor?

or do i just need to use a non ballast coil?

or what would you guys recommend i do? any pics/diagrams would be great! many thanks

also has anyone a wiring diagram for a 1982 mini mayfair thankyou

Edited by marsy, 02 August 2008 - 06:35 PM.

[dklawson]

I have not worked on a Mini with electronic ignition so I encourage others to elaborate on, confirm or correct what I say below.

Electronic ignitions do NOT use a ballast coil. My concern is that by running a ballast coil for a short period you may have allowed too much current to pass through the ignition module. This generates excess heat. I don't know if your module still works or not. As I said, I haven't worked on electronic ignition Minis.

Others will have to provide wiring information for the module itself. Every ignition module I've seen on non-Minis requires a source of switched 12V for the module itself. Most have an earth connection through the mounting surface of the module. However, a few German ignitions I've worked on use a dedicated earth wire for the module. Others more familiar with electronic ignition Minis will have to fill in the specifics that apply to your car.

If you use a standard 3-Ohm coil the wiring is straight forward. Go back and look at the figure on page 2 of the PDF I posted the link to on the first page of this thread. You'll see that the coil (+) terminal must be supplied switched +12V power from the ignition switch. The distributor/module has a single wire that goes to coil (-). That's basically it for a standard coil... switched 12V in on coil (+) and a path to earth (through the ignition module) connected to coil (-).

It only gets complicated when you add a ballast resistor and 4-terminal starter solenoid into the equation.

[marsy]

I have not worked on a Mini with electronic ignition so I encourage others to elaborate on, confirm or correct what I say below.

Electronic ignitions do NOT use a ballast coil. My concern is that by running a ballast coil for a short period you may have allowed too much current to pass through the ignition module. This generates excess heat. I don't know if your module still works or not. As I said, I haven't worked on electronic ignition Minis.

Others will have to provide wiring information for the module itself. Every ignition module I've seen on non-Minis requires a source of switched 12V for the module itself. Most have an earth connection through the mounting surface of the module. However, a few German ignitions I've worked on use a dedicated earth wire for the module. Others more familiar with electronic ignition Minis will have to fill in the specifics that apply to your car.

If you use a standard 3-Ohm coil the wiring is straight forward. Go back and look at the figure on page 2 of the PDF I posted the link to on the first page of this thread. You'll see that the coil (+) terminal must be supplied switched +12V power from the ignition switch. The distributor/module has a single wire that goes to coil (-). That's basically it for a standard coil... switched 12V in on coil (+) and a path to earth (through the ignition module) connected to coil (-).

It only gets complicated when you add a ballast resistor and 4-terminal starter solenoid into the equation.

so ill try a non ballasted coil.

so i can still have the electronic ignition, with the non ballasted coil cant it?

before i swopped the engine with the metro one(in the car now)
it had an illumenation electronic kit fitted, inside this distributor, it was a 998,
would that also be a non ballasted coil? i will buy a new one anyway

Edited by marsy, 03 August 2008 - 09:22 AM.

[Ethel]

We need to find out what flavour of electronic ignition you have. Some aftermarket systems aren't too fussy, others - like the factory fitted Lucas kit, use yet another specification of coil. There's still the possibility the coil itself is damaged if its been run at the wrong voltage.

Some piccies of your dizzy with the cap off would help. You could check out: Lucas 59DM4, Lucas 65DM4, Aldon and electronic ignition in general on the web to compare your own. The Minispares site should have piccies of all the likely candidates.

No part number on that coil Unipart GCL... etc?

[marsy]

We need to find out what flavour of electronic ignition you have. Some aftermarket systems aren't too fussy, others - like the factory fitted Lucas kit, use yet another specification of coil. There's still the possibility the coil itself is damaged if its been run at the wrong voltage.

Some piccies of your dizzy with the cap off would help. You could check out: Lucas 59DM4, Lucas 65DM4, Aldon and electronic ignition in general on the web to compare your own. The Minispares site should have piccies of all the likely candidates.

No part number on that coil Unipart GCL... etc?

the electronic ignition is just a standard one supplied with the distributor that was on the engine originally,
there is a black box on the side of the distributor, with says 9 EM ELECTRONIC IGNITION made in uk

pic of dizzy(not very good pic)
 dist_005.JPG   523.82K   5 downloads

pic of ignition module(really not very good pic)

 dist_006.JPG   443.65K   4 downloads


i cannot see any part no. on coil i can just make out it is unipart,

i tried a non ballast coil today, and no difference, still didnt fire up, the coil may of been knackered as it was one i brought from a joblot of stuff

i then tried the coil i had on my old engine it started up first time! i dont know what coil it is, again i can only just make out UNIPART
on the end of it is stamped 5200678
B8

i also brought a coil today from local motor factors, i asked for a NON BALLAST COIL, but i got it home and done the tests previously mentioned to test if ballast or non ballast and the test results were 1.0 ohms, and 10.5 v, so i take it this one is not non ballast is it?

so i have not tested the above coil as didnt think it would work and didnt want to break that one too

i hope you can make some sense of this all thanks
as i feel we are getting some where now, and i would really like to sort this problem

[Ethel]

Your dizzy is a 65DM4, which is the later of the 2 Lucas ones.

The coil should be Unipart GCL143 - 0.7 to 0.86 ohms

It's not a ballasted system.If you remove the amplifier module (black box) you can check the resistance across the terminals on the dizzy that it plugs in to - 0.95 to 1.5 k ohms is what you want.

[marsy]

Your dizzy is a 65DM4, which is the later of the 2 Lucas ones.

The coil should be Unipart GCL143 - 0.7 to 0.86 ohms

It's not a ballasted system.If you remove the amplifier module (black box) you can check the resistance across the terminals on the dizzy that it plugs in to - 0.95 to 1.5 k ohms is what you want.

just disconnect the amplifier, nothing else, ie still have the white wire connected to dizzy.

do i need to turn ignition to start postion? for the test?

[marsy]

Your dizzy is a 65DM4, which is the later of the 2 Lucas ones.

The coil should be Unipart GCL143 - 0.7 to 0.86 ohms

It's not a ballasted system.If you remove the amplifier module (black box) you can check the resistance across the terminals on the dizzy that it plugs in to - 0.95 to 1.5 k ohms is what you want.

the reading is 0.9 ohms

[Ethel]

You don't want anything turned on! You'd just unscrew the black box pull it away from the dizzy to expose the terminals to measure across (on the dizzy - not the black box). Personally, I don't think this is the problem if you've had it running - 'leecy ignition tends to work or not at all.
Having had a quick reread, the coil sounds like it's the right one but the voltage sounds a bit low. What voltage have you got at the battery?

[marsy]

You don't want anything turned on! You'd just unscrew the black box pull it away from the dizzy to expose the terminals to measure across (on the dizzy - not the black box). Personally, I don't think this is the problem if you've had it running - 'leecy ignition tends to work or not at all.
Having had a quick reread, the coil sounds like it's the right one but the voltage sounds a bit low. What voltage have you got at the battery?

ive got 12.6volts at the battery

(ill try that test tommorow evening)

Edited by marsy, 03 August 2008 - 09:18 PM.

[Ethel]

What year is the car, not the engine? I'm wondering if it was ballasted, obviously things have changed with the new starter and engine. If the starter motor is the same type as before it probably was ballasted - explains why the old coil worked. Run a wire between the coil's +ve terminal and one of those chunky brown wires where they plug on to the starter. If that cures it you need to rig up a new feed to the coil.

Not only might it cure it; it will also bypass the ignition switch, so the only way you'll stop the engine is to pull the wire off!

Edited by Ethel, 03 August 2008 - 09:38 PM.