245 replies to this topic

[Carlos W]

My mates Bora has been smoking for years (probably due to the water/meth injection)

 

[Globule]

Mine does nowhere near the published MPG figures. 

The issue is relative to Nox so MPG is almost irrelevant. The "fix" however, may effect MPG or involve higher usage of urea etc (which is what I meant by running costs). 

[MaxAndPaddy]

Damm those German diesels ay

 

FB_IMG_1442532292149 by Alex Robinson, on Flickr

 

That's more than just an emissions fail  [secretly likes it]

[sonikk4]

 

To be honest this will not stop me owning or driving a VW diesel. 

What if the vehicles have to be re-tested, and therefore your road tax is increased to be inline with others vehicles with such high emissions? Or, if the required "fix" for the problem drastically increases your running costs? I think it is these factors which will be more damaging to the average VW driver than the actual emission impact. 

 

I imagine those that claim compensation for "choosing a VW as it is a greener choice" are just chancing it to get some reimbursement from VW which is perfectly understandable, at the end of the day its free money. 

 

You have basically answered my reply. Whatever happens i will stick with VW. I like the car i have, i have no issues with the brand, if my tax goes up because of this then i'm pretty sure Mr VW will have to stump any extra costs incurred.

 

As to cars not doing their published figures well show me a car under normal day to day driving that actually does. Very far and few between i bet. If i drive at the legal limits in constant moving traffic my 1900kg 2ltr TDI Passat GT 170 will achieve with ease 53 mpg. My old Passat 170 2ltr TDI Sport Estate struggled to do that on a very good day. Different engine though and not common rail.

 

Bare in mind we are talking not just VW here but Audi and Skoda. They use the same engines that are of concern. All part of the mighty VAG group.

 

And as i have previously mentioned how many other companies will also come out of the closet with similar cheats??? 

[Carlos W]

 

 

To be honest this will not stop me owning or driving a VW diesel. 

What if the vehicles have to be re-tested, and therefore your road tax is increased to be inline with others vehicles with such high emissions? Or, if the required "fix" for the problem drastically increases your running costs? I think it is these factors which will be more damaging to the average VW driver than the actual emission impact. 

 

I imagine those that claim compensation for "choosing a VW as it is a greener choice" are just chancing it to get some reimbursement from VW which is perfectly understandable, at the end of the day its free money. 

 

You have basically answered my reply. Whatever happens i will stick with VW. I like the car i have, i have no issues with the brand, if my tax goes up because of this then i'm pretty sure Mr VW will have to stump any extra costs incurred.

 

As to cars not doing their published figures well show me a car under normal day to day driving that actually does. Very far and few between i bet. If i drive at the legal limits in constant moving traffic my 1900kg 2ltr TDI Passat GT 170 will achieve with ease 53 mpg. My old Passat 170 2ltr TDI Sport Estate struggled to do that on a very good day. Different engine though and not common rail.

 

Bare in mind we are talking not just VW here but Audi and Skoda. They use the same engines that are of concern. All part of the mighty VAG group.

 

And as i have previously mentioned how many other companies will also come out of the closet with similar cheats??

Here's my issue.

 

Seat Ibiza 1.6TDi 30 quid a year to tax. Averages 45-50mpg on a run

 

Mazda 6 2.2TD 130 quid a year to tax averages 55-60mpg on a run.

 

They must make the same number of CO2s per gallon of diesel, so why is there such a difference in tax? Were VAG honest in their emissions figures?

[sonikk4]

There are so many different reasons why one car performs better than others with regards to MPG.

Driving methods, traffic, tyre pressures weather conditions and so on. We have Bluemotion Golfs at work and when used on the LGW to LHR work run driving at the national speed limits 4 up I have seen over 63mpg. Other times low 50's.

Too many variances to compare really. True world figures as to what manufacturers state are two different animals altogether. My wife's Bluemotion UP petrol is supposed to give some serious MPG figures but on a run my CC fully loaded can give a better overall figure.

With the amount of mileage I do any increase in the vehicle tax will play a very small part in the overall running costs. I'm more interested in what I pay per ltr at the pump. If I was that bothered I would buy an electric car and hope I make it to work each day, and I mean electric and not one of the many hypocritical Hybrids out there.

Anyway we could argue this until the cows come home. At the end of the day this will blow over, something else will grab the headlines and this will become another footnote to a major manufacturers ability to fool the public.

[Carlos W]

There are so many different reasons why one car performs better than others with regards to MPG.

Driving methods, traffic, tyre pressures weather conditions and so on. We have Bluemotion Golfs at work and when used on the LGW to LHR work run driving at the national speed limits 4 up I have seen over 63mpg. Other times low 50's.

Too many variances to compare really. True world figures as to what manufacturers state are two different animals altogether. My wife's Bluemotion UP petrol is supposed to give some serious MPG figures but on a run my CC fully loaded can give a better overall figure.

With the amount of mileage I do any increase in the vehicle tax will play a very small part in the overall running costs. I'm more interested in what I pay per ltr at the pump. If I was that bothered I would buy an electric car and hope I make it to work each day, and I mean electric and not one of the many hypocritical Hybrids out there.

Anyway we could argue this until the cows come home. At the end of the day this will blow over, something else will grab the headlines and this will become another footnote to a major manufacturers ability to fool the public.

HA HA HA 

 

Hybrids, like the Prius, which needs its batteries changed after 10 years. Really environmentally friendly that is

[jamesmpi]

The way in which they calculate mpg figures is flawed. Each car is tested on a rolling road simulating different driving conditions in laboratory conditions. So no matter how you drive it is almost impossible to match the stated figures.

Since this "scandal" came to light more and more OEMs are calling for "real world testing" but how they make this fair and equal is impossible to say. As stated above there are numerous items that can increase or decrease mpg like Weather, temp, etc

Edited by jamesmpi, 25 September 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[1984mini25]

 

 

 

To be honest this will not stop me owning or driving a VW diesel. 

What if the vehicles have to be re-tested, and therefore your road tax is increased to be inline with others vehicles with such high emissions? Or, if the required "fix" for the problem drastically increases your running costs? I think it is these factors which will be more damaging to the average VW driver than the actual emission impact. 

 

I imagine those that claim compensation for "choosing a VW as it is a greener choice" are just chancing it to get some reimbursement from VW which is perfectly understandable, at the end of the day its free money. 

 

You have basically answered my reply. Whatever happens i will stick with VW. I like the car i have, i have no issues with the brand, if my tax goes up because of this then i'm pretty sure Mr VW will have to stump any extra costs incurred.

 

As to cars not doing their published figures well show me a car under normal day to day driving that actually does. Very far and few between i bet. If i drive at the legal limits in constant moving traffic my 1900kg 2ltr TDI Passat GT 170 will achieve with ease 53 mpg. My old Passat 170 2ltr TDI Sport Estate struggled to do that on a very good day. Different engine though and not common rail.

 

Bare in mind we are talking not just VW here but Audi and Skoda. They use the same engines that are of concern. All part of the mighty VAG group.

 

And as i have previously mentioned how many other companies will also come out of the closet with similar cheats??

Here's my issue.

 

Seat Ibiza 1.6TDi 30 quid a year to tax. Averages 45-50mpg on a run

 

Mazda 6 2.2TD 130 quid a year to tax averages 55-60mpg on a run.

 

They must make the same number of CO2s per gallon of diesel, so why is there such a difference in tax? Were VAG honest in their emissions figures?

 

 

If you look into, the government in a bid to reduce environmental co levels made the switch to encourage the buying of diesels in the early 90's with them emitting less co than petrol engines, hence the encouragement of cheaper road tax. Witch is what most people buying a new car are more concerned with. With the hope that over time the engines would become "greener" to meat new emission regs. The big problem being, while diesels do emit less co, they do emit higher levels of nox emissions, with lead to higher air pollution, lung disease, heart attacks, asthma etc.

 

And now it appears so vw's engines (and possibly others) pass the emission regulations and hence qualify for the cheaper tax, they have been using software to cheat. So in the real word their new dieses aren't as green or less co admitting than they claim.

[Carlos W]

 

 

 

 

To be honest this will not stop me owning or driving a VW diesel. 

What if the vehicles have to be re-tested, and therefore your road tax is increased to be inline with others vehicles with such high emissions? Or, if the required "fix" for the problem drastically increases your running costs? I think it is these factors which will be more damaging to the average VW driver than the actual emission impact. 

 

I imagine those that claim compensation for "choosing a VW as it is a greener choice" are just chancing it to get some reimbursement from VW which is perfectly understandable, at the end of the day its free money. 

 

You have basically answered my reply. Whatever happens i will stick with VW. I like the car i have, i have no issues with the brand, if my tax goes up because of this then i'm pretty sure Mr VW will have to stump any extra costs incurred.

 

As to cars not doing their published figures well show me a car under normal day to day driving that actually does. Very far and few between i bet. If i drive at the legal limits in constant moving traffic my 1900kg 2ltr TDI Passat GT 170 will achieve with ease 53 mpg. My old Passat 170 2ltr TDI Sport Estate struggled to do that on a very good day. Different engine though and not common rail.

 

Bare in mind we are talking not just VW here but Audi and Skoda. They use the same engines that are of concern. All part of the mighty VAG group.

 

And as i have previously mentioned how many other companies will also come out of the closet with similar cheats??

Here's my issue.

 

Seat Ibiza 1.6TDi 30 quid a year to tax. Averages 45-50mpg on a run

 

Mazda 6 2.2TD 130 quid a year to tax averages 55-60mpg on a run.

 

They must make the same number of CO2s per gallon of diesel, so why is there such a difference in tax? Were VAG honest in their emissions figures?

 

 

If you look into, the government in a bid to reduce environmental co levels made the switch to encourage the buying of diesels in the early 90's with them emitting less co than petrol engines, hence the encouragement of cheaper road tax. Witch is what most people buying a new car are more concerned with. With the hope that over time the engines would become "greener" to meat new emission regs. The big problem being, while diesels do emit less co, they do emit higher levels of nox emissions, with lead to higher air pollution, lung disease, heart attacks, asthma etc.

 

And now it appears so vw's engines (and possibly others) pass the emission regulations and hence qualify for the cheaper tax, they have been using software to cheat. So in the real word their new dieses aren't as green or less co admitting than they claim.

 

I've already said it in this thread, they don't boost in neutral

[robminibcy]

I think anyone with a modern vw diesel will be very upset if it gets recalled because it will eat its way through fuel, EGRs and DPFs! Not to mention becoming regularly clogged and down on power! ( all of which will have far greater effect financially and environmentally than just allowing the car to release slightly higher emissions).

 

As a VW enthusiast myself I regularly see posts where older tdis (pre VE and PD pre dpf engines) are out performing some more modern engine in mpg.

 

Certainly green peace arnt going to be happy with me driving a 12 year old golf tdi and a classic mini! hahaha.

[CityEPete]

I think anyone with a modern vw diesel will be very upset if it gets recalled because it will eat its way through fuel, EGRs and DPFs! Not to mention becoming regularly clogged and down on power! ( all of which will have far greater effect financially and environmentally than just allowing the car to release slightly higher emissions).

 

As a VW enthusiast myself I regularly see posts where older tdis (pre VE and PD pre dpf engines) are out performing some more modern engine in mpg.

 

Certainly green peace arnt going to be happy with me driving a 12 year old golf tdi and a classic mini! hahaha.

All they are doing is not putting the adblu in the system though, (some electronically, some do not even have the harware it appears afaik?) will adding more adblu in alter the car that much regarding power and mpg, dpf and egr etc other than just needing more visits to be re filled with adblu? Even when used as intended the tank lasts 1000's of miles with a refill at 37k or something so just filling with every service should solve that?

[Rob1234mini]

^{Give it time, every major manufacturer will be found to have been doing the same for years.  There is no way only VAG has been involved and nobody has talked...   Bloody americans love causing problems don't they, try giving one of your ridiculous 10 litre v8 engines to a brit, german or Japanese engineer they will put you to shame on bhp with less than half the capacity.}

[CityEPete]

^{Give it time, every major manufacturer will be found to have been doing the same for years.  There is no way only VAG has been involved and nobody has talked...   Bloody americans love causing problems don't they, try giving one of your ridiculous 10 litre v8 engines to a brit, german or Japanese engineer they will put you to shame on bhp with less than half the capacity.}

I suppose to be fair the difference is that they are not trying to pretend it does anymore than 9mpg which makes it far worse for the environment no doubt than a bluemotion UP but they are not trying to fool anyone?

[Rob1234mini]

Very true, still find it strange they have such stringent laws on emissions yet seemingly have no concept of how to build anything with any "efficient" qualities.