Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Inertia Starter - Is It Knackered?

engine electrical

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Will

Will

    One Carb Or Two?

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Location: Aberdeen

Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:29 PM

After changing the clutch on my 1982 mini (with a 1982 1275 metro engine in it), my brother and I cannot get the engine to start; there's only a click from the solenoid.
 
So far, we have:

  • Ensured the battery is charged
  • Replaced the solenoid (3 Terminal type)
  • Earth straps all checked/cleaned
  • Cleaned the battery terminals
  • Tried jump starting from my brother's car with the mini battery disconnected (to remove the issue of a very flat battery)

Still just a click!
 
We tested the starter by removing it from the transfer casing and connecting it to the normal connections (using jump leads) and the starter turns when turning the key in the ignition. We then bench tested on the battery and took a video. Here it is:
 
https://youtu.be/NbecS4gUcJg

Is it goosed? I'd expected the pinion to shoot straight out every time. Seems I'm not getting that every time?
 
We're both fairly sure we've tried everything we need to before overhauling or replacing the starter...
 
Any help / comments would be much appreciated!


Edited by Will, 07 June 2018 - 07:47 PM.


#2 robminibcy

robminibcy

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,506 posts
  • Location: birmingham

Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:03 PM

Can you turn the engine by hand?

#3 Will

Will

    One Carb Or Two?

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Location: Aberdeen

Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:09 PM

robminibcy - Yep, the engine turns freely. I haven't tried by hand as such but the car rolls freely in gear.

Edit: I should also say that before the clutch housing went on, everything turned freely.

Edited by Will, 07 June 2018 - 08:17 PM.


#4 cal844

cal844

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,480 posts
  • Local Club: www.scottishmini.net

Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:17 PM

We had an issue where the keyed washer was fretting on a micro weld edge preventing us from tightening it enough

#5 Will

Will

    One Carb Or Two?

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Location: Aberdeen

Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:28 PM

cal844 - And did that mean the flywheel wasn’t on the nose of the crank far enough so the starter was then engaged all the time?

Would the starter not manage to turn the engine regardless?

#6 MIGLIACARS

MIGLIACARS

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Traders
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts

Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:25 PM

just get it reconditioned or a new one its gonna need one soon anyway there not the best starters. and will save heart ack and sleep loss



#7 Bat

Bat

    Mini Mad

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 07 June 2018 - 10:20 PM

Hi,
Try testing it with the jump leads when the starter is fitted on the engine. If the battery is good it should turn over fine.
Cheers

#8 Will

Will

    One Carb Or Two?

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Location: Aberdeen

Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:42 AM

Bat - when we jump started it, or at least attempted to, we had the mini battery disconnected with positive to the solenoid and earth on a known good earth. No luck.

To test that even further, we decided to use the same setup but remove the starter from the flywheel housing... the starter fires
up as per the video. We weren’t paying attention to the movement of the bendix at that point though...

Going back to when the starter is in the flywheel housing: we’re both fairly sure the starter turns ever so slightly on the first attrempt. When I say slightly, I mean so slightly that the sound of the solenoid almost masks that sound.

Does anyone have any comments on the bendix movement seen in the video? I assumed it should move axially immediately every single time it is energised?

MIGLIACARS - I’m nearly at that point. Well... I’m almost certain I’ll be ordering a new starter this morning!

#9 DeadSquare

DeadSquare

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 105 posts
  • Location: Herefordshire

Posted 08 June 2018 - 06:40 AM

Bat - when we jump started it, or at least attempted to, we had the mini battery disconnected with positive to the solenoid and earth on a known good earth. No luck.

To test that even further, we decided to use the same setup but remove the starter from the flywheel housing... the starter fires
up as per the video. We weren’t paying attention to the movement of the bendix at that point though...

Going back to when the starter is in the flywheel housing: we’re both fairly sure the starter turns ever so slightly on the first attrempt. When I say slightly, I mean so slightly that the sound of the solenoid almost masks that sound.

Does anyone have any comments on the bendix movement seen in the video? I assumed it should move axially immediately every single time it is energised?

MIGLIACARS - I’m nearly at that point. Well... I’m almost certain I’ll be ordering a new starter this morning!

 

 

 

You should be able to see if "the starter turns ever so slightly" by watching the squared end of the shaft.

 

The Bendix doesn't have to move very far before the pinion engages the started ring, which then grabs it and pulls it in, and on the occasions in your video that the starter doesn't roll and you get a substantial connection, from my experience, the Bendix is throwing the pinion far enough to be grabbed by the starter ring.

 

Presumably you have tried what you are doing in the video, jump leads to the starter, no solenoid involved, with the starter bolted in the car?    A bit less dodgy way to do it would be to attach the one lead to the starter and strike the other to the engine.

 

Oh, and with all those "lightening flashes", it might be as well to pull the plug out of the alternator.



#10 Will

Will

    One Carb Or Two?

  • TMF+ Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Location: Aberdeen

Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:06 AM

 

You should be able to see if "the starter turns ever so slightly" by watching the squared end of the shaft.

Yeah, we are seeing an ever so slight movement and then it seems to lock up. There's barely any movement at all.

 

 

Presumably you have tried what you are doing in the video, jump leads to the starter, no solenoid involved, with the starter bolted in the car?    A bit less dodgy way to do it would be to attach the one lead to the starter and strike the other to the engine.

My memory is awful so I can't remember whether we tried it. It's worth a quick shot but I'm happy the solenoid is find given the approach we took to testing (i.e. it worked when not mounted).

 

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'm going to purchase a new starter and give that a whirl...



#11 cal844

cal844

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,480 posts
  • Local Club: www.scottishmini.net

Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

cal844 - And did that mean the flywheel wasn’t on the nose of the crank far enough so the starter was then engaged all the time?

Would the starter not manage to turn the engine regardless?

The flywheel actually spun the keyed washer off the crank(no damage to the crank 😉). Luckily for us we had spares.

The starter would spin the flywheel but not the crankshaft, it was an easy fix in the end

Stripped the flywheel assembly off the engine and refitted with a spare keyed washer and new bolt

Edited by cal844, 08 June 2018 - 10:02 AM.


#12 DeadSquare

DeadSquare

    Mini Mad

  • Noobies
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 105 posts
  • Location: Herefordshire

Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

One last thing.

 

Push the Bendix into the engaged position and fix it there by wrapping a strip of cardboard behind it and sellotaping it.

 

Put the starter back in the car and see how easy it is to turn it, using a spanner on the squared end of the shaft.

 

No movement or very stiff, and it is mechanical.

 

Turns the engine easily, and it is electrical fault.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: engine, electrical

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Mini Spares