61 replies to this topic

[roga]

Just because an overinflated pratt like Jeremy bigmouth Clarkson vomits up opinions without using what little brain cells he has left after so many years of people sucking up to him, it doesn't mean we should naturally agree with him, or even try and analyse what he said.

He's just a pratt and not worth worrying about.

Look, just because you disagree with what Clarkson has said (and frankly you've completely missed his point anyway) you don't have to start being abusive about him because you've wrongly summised he has dissed the Mini.

Clarkson is on record as a great fan of the car so get some perspective please!

I disagree with many things he says, the tabloid/laddish populism he often spouts is a million miles away from a lefty Guardian reading type like me. However the bloke is influential like it or not, he's also incredibly funny even (or especially) when offending people like me and IMHO his wit and ability to tap the zeitgeist (and make money from it) suggests anything but someone with only a few "brain cells ... left"

[alicetheauto]

And he bought a lightning jet fighter to put in his garden. But forgot to tell his wife til it turned up. He nust be doing something right, he has been broadcasting car shows for what,15 years? EVERYONE knows his name, so even if what he says is offensive to people, so many people also find him funny. And to be honest, what he said about the Mini was in essence true! It barely changed in 41 years of production, which was its downfall........

[Matt.P]

It looks like our dear Mr Clarkson has contradicted himself once again... If anyone can remember the duo-review he did on the fiat cinaiuwqeisiyarteaweqweooo (or however the hell you spell it) and the Mini cooper. He said that although the Fiat was the better car he preferred the mini because it was part of british life - aside from the obvious superior handlng and quirkiness.

Could they have improved the mini? yes, but where do they stop? do we end up with a completely different car altogether? or would this be a half hearted "that'll do" response.

You can see where he was coming from with the mini changes though, the guys making it (BMC, BL, Austin Rover, Rover, BMW) could have done more... if you look at the changes in the early cars there are a few between the years 1959 and 1962, why? Because they tested the cars on the buyers - not the way to do things...
Whilst other cars were racing ahead as far as in car entertainment, reliability, safety, efficiency, the mini has kept plodding along and has remained fairly similar over the years, ok so we've had a few engine choices, interior trim options and different paint - but really? has it changed all that much?

Put simply, No. It hasn't, but think about it. The way many classic mini enthusiasts have reacted to the new Mini hasn't been great, it's too big on the outside, too small on the inside - how the hell were they reading the original mini brief notes, upside down? You see my point, besides, they did try replacing it, they eased in the metro, and the mini outlived it, Innocenti introduced the hatchback - and the mini outlived it.

You can see that any major changes would have been controversial, besides, a design like the mini is different, it broke the conventions of the time because it looked so different, each decade accepted the mini with open arms, each with their own vinyl interiors, flower power paintjobs and the whole host of other modifications that people did - the Mini represents the owner, it's not simply the link from A to B.

[Xiao_Bin]

It looks like our dear Mr Clarkson has contradicted himself once again... If anyone can remember the duo-review he did on the fiat cinaiuwqeisiyarteaweqweooo (or however the hell you spell it) and the Mini cooper. He said that although the Fiat was the better car he preferred the mini because it was part of british life - aside from the obvious superior handlng and quirkiness.

Could they have improved the mini? yes, but where do they stop? do we end up with a completely different car altogether? or would this be a half hearted "that'll do" response.

You can see where he was coming from with the mini changes though, the guys making it (BMC, BL, Austin Rover, Rover, BMW) could have done more... if you look at the changes in the early cars there are a few between the years 1959 and 1962, why? Because they tested the cars on the buyers - not the way to do things...
Whilst other cars were racing ahead as far as in car entertainment, reliability, safety, efficiency, the mini has kept plodding along and has remained fairly similar over the years, ok so we've had a few engine choices, interior trim options and different paint - but really? has it changed all that much?

Put simply, No. It hasn't, but think about it. The way many classic mini enthusiasts have reacted to the new Mini hasn't been great, it's too big on the outside, too small on the inside - how the hell were they reading the original mini brief notes, upside down? You see my point, besides, they did try replacing it, they eased in the metro, and the mini outlived it, Innocenti introduced the hatchback - and the mini outlived it.

You can see that any major changes would have been controversial, besides, a design like the mini is different, it broke the conventions of the time because it looked so different, each decade accepted the mini with open arms, each with their own vinyl interiors, flower power paintjobs and the whole host of other modifications that people did - the Mini represents the owner, it's not simply the link from A to B.

read the article, he's not talking about the mini
he has not contradicted himself in any way, and barely used the word 'mini' to make a point.
As said before, the topic title is misleading and you guys are all falling for it without even reading what's the article about...

[Matt.P]

It looks like our dear Mr Clarkson has contradicted himself once again... If anyone can remember the duo-review he did on the fiat cinaiuwqeisiyarteaweqweooo (or however the hell you spell it) and the Mini cooper. He said that although the Fiat was the better car he preferred the mini because it was part of british life - aside from the obvious superior handlng and quirkiness.

Could they have improved the mini? yes, but where do they stop? do we end up with a completely different car altogether? or would this be a half hearted "that'll do" response.

You can see where he was coming from with the mini changes though, the guys making it (BMC, BL, Austin Rover, Rover, BMW) could have done more... if you look at the changes in the early cars there are a few between the years 1959 and 1962, why? Because they tested the cars on the buyers - not the way to do things...
Whilst other cars were racing ahead as far as in car entertainment, reliability, safety, efficiency, the mini has kept plodding along and has remained fairly similar over the years, ok so we've had a few engine choices, interior trim options and different paint - but really? has it changed all that much?

Put simply, No. It hasn't, but think about it. The way many classic mini enthusiasts have reacted to the new Mini hasn't been great, it's too big on the outside, too small on the inside - how the hell were they reading the original mini brief notes, upside down? You see my point, besides, they did try replacing it, they eased in the metro, and the mini outlived it, Innocenti introduced the hatchback - and the mini outlived it.

You can see that any major changes would have been controversial, besides, a design like the mini is different, it broke the conventions of the time because it looked so different, each decade accepted the mini with open arms, each with their own vinyl interiors, flower power paintjobs and the whole host of other modifications that people did - the Mini represents the owner, it's not simply the link from A to B.

read the article, he's not talking about the mini
he has not contradicted himself in any way, and barely used the word 'mini' to make a point.
As said before, the topic title is misleading and you guys are all falling for it without even reading what's the article about...

Have read the article, and wrote about it. i'm concentrating on the mini bit

[Juju]

Jebus peeps! Is this still going?!

[Matt.P]

still going, article was a good read. Seems to have generated quite a bit of conversation.

Speaking of Clarkson - I wonder if there'll be a top gear special for the mini? I'd watch it

[taffy1967]

And he bought a lightning jet fighter to put in his garden. But forgot to tell his wife til it turned up. He nust be doing something right, he has been broadcasting car shows for what,15 years? EVERYONE knows his name, so even if what he says is offensive to people, so many people also find him funny. And to be honest, what he said about the Mini was in essence true! It barely changed in 41 years of production, which was its downfall........

How was it a downfall since BMW bought the name and is now using all that history to sell their overrated mid sized hatchback?

Plus if the Mini had changed over the years like say the Fiesta or the Micra, would there be a big cult following for it now and would this forum even exist?

Probably not, because it would just be another ordinary car that evolved.

So be thankful that the Mini didn't change, plus it was unique and a British icon so it's right that it kept those cheeky looks for so long.

Edited by taffy1967, 18 May 2009 - 10:06 PM.

[taffy1967]

still going, article was a good read. Seems to have generated quite a bit of conversation.

Speaking of Clarkson - I wonder if there'll be a top gear special for the mini? I'd watch it

I think they covered it just prior to the launch of the BINI.

[taffy1967]

Either way he said the Mini was rubbish by 1965 and we all know that it wasn't. So I'd say that we have every right to argue the case here?

[taffy1967]

Just because an overinflated pratt like Jeremy bigmouth Clarkson vomits up opinions without using what little brain cells he has left after so many years of people sucking up to him, it doesn't mean we should naturally agree with him, or even try and analyse what he said.

He's just a pratt and not worth worrying about.

Look, just because you disagree with what Clarkson has said (and frankly you've completely missed his point anyway) you don't have to start being abusive about him because you've wrongly summised he has dissed the Mini.

Clarkson is on record as a great fan of the car so get some perspective please!

I disagree with many things he says, the tabloid/laddish populism he often spouts is a million miles away from a lefty Guardian reading type like me. However the bloke is influential like it or not, he's also incredibly funny even (or especially) when offending people like me and IMHO his wit and ability to tap the zeitgeist (and make money from it) suggests anything but someone with only a few "brain cells ... left"

I didn't think I was being abusive, no I was just having my say and it is a free world after all.

Anyway yes he can be funny at times, but also quite annoying sometimes too.

So every time he appears in the press for saying something that he really shouldn't have, I usually just groan and think oh not again.

[taffy1967]

Yup Graham day saved it then, quite right but it was set to be axed 9 years later and was saved by John Cooper and another parent company both of whom also realised that it was a lot more than 'just' a car.

No the other parent company are just exploiting the name to the fullest extent and nothing more. The real Mini was axed in October 2000 and the hatchback that BMW are now desperately trying to sell only has a name to link it to it's real ancestor.

So it's a bit like buying the brand name like 'The Beatles' or 'Pink Floyd' but having an all new line up that can't perform any of the hits that made them famous in the first place and we're all supposed to accept that new line up anyway as it's actually progress?

No I think some things are best left the way they are, so we can fondly remember and love them for being so special and inspiring.

So leaving aside the 'usual' stuff are you now saying they should have dropped it in '96?

Sorry, but it's a bit unclear!

No, because the Mini was still wearing it's original shape until around 9.30am on the morning of October 4th 2000 and BMW had already dropped Rover several months prior to this.

Edited by taffy1967, 18 May 2009 - 10:13 PM.

[roga]

How was it a downfall since BMW bought the name and is now using all that history to sell their overrated mid sized hatchback?

Okay Taffy, try making a sentence out of the following words:

changing
stuck
record
Try
the
years
nine
been
for
it's
!

Get ma drift?

Even something that's indisputably correct gets boring after being repeated continuously for almost a decade ... and believe me what you say is highly disputable and you have a the habit of returning to it whatever the subject which could be construed as plain obsessive!

I didn't think I was being abusive, no I was just having my say and it is a free world after all.

Nobody said it wasn't but it tends to to be moe 'free' if you have enough money to sue people for libel - ask anyone who works for Private Eye!

Anyway yes he can be funny at times, but also quite annoying sometimes too.

Agreed, as I said above.

So every time he appears in the press for saying something that he really shouldn't have, I usually just groan and think oh not again.

Yeah but he wants a reaction and that article was clearly set up to provoke one and it clearly wasn't really about the Mini anyway so why get annoyed about it?

No, because the Mini was still wearing it's original shape until around 9.30am on the morning of October 4th 2000 and BMW had already dropped Rover several months prior to this.

Good, so it isn't just Clarkson who sometimes contradicts his previous comments then!

[taffy1967]

How was it a downfall since BMW bought the name and is now using all that history to sell their overrated mid sized hatchback?

Okay Taffy, try making a sentence out of the following words:

changing
stuck
record
Try
the
years
nine
been
for
it's
!

Get ma drift?

Even something that's indisputably correct gets boring after being repeated continuously for almost a decade ... and believe me what you say is highly disputable and you have a the habit of returning to it whatever the subject which could be construed as plain obsessive!

I didn't think I was being abusive, no I was just having my say and it is a free world after all.

Nobody said it wasn't but it tends to to be moe 'free' if you have enough money to sue people for libel - ask anyone who works for Private Eye!

Anyway yes he can be funny at times, but also quite annoying sometimes too.

Agreed, as I said above.

So every time he appears in the press for saying something that he really shouldn't have, I usually just groan and think oh not again.

Yeah but he wants a reaction and that article was clearly set up to provoke one and it clearly wasn't really about the Mini anyway so why get annoyed about it?

No, because the Mini was still wearing it's original shape until around 9.30am on the morning of October 4th 2000 and BMW had already dropped Rover several months prior to this.

Good, so it isn't just Clarkson who sometimes contradicts his previous comments then!

Well of course I'm obsessive about Minis, I've been afflicted with the bloody things for almost 25 years now and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Either way he said the Mini was rubbish by 1965 and we all know that it wasn't. So I'd say that we have every right to argue the case here?

So he's still wrong anyway.

[roga]

Well of course I'm obsessive about Minis, I've been afflicted with the bloody things for almost 25 years now and I wouldn't have it any other way.

LOL, surely "afflicted" isn't the right word - sounds like it's a disease if you use that word

So he's still wrong anyway.

He is indeed factually incorrect in as far as the 1965 comment goes but the point of what he's saying isn't about Minis, he's just using them as a quick debating point IMHO so I wouldn't get overly annoyed at what he says.

Anyway, I accept you love Minis and I don't think we're going to agree on Clarkson's points but we can agree we love Minis eh!?