80 replies to this topic

[Remylebleu]

i started a thread asking about why the front end of my mini has dropped. the driver side wheel rubs alot when driving at full lock left or any angle to the right. had a mechanic have a quick lock and he was going on about twisted arms, subframe etc etc, everyone on here seemed abit suspect about that.............................so i investigated further and the one arm on the drivers side thats comes off the knuckle joint at the bottom of the shock to the front of the car (dont know the name) was a little bent so i straightend that.

then i put it on ramps and looked at the shocks, they seemed ok...ish, there just cheap standard non adjustable. the interesting thing is and what i believe the problem to be is the bottom half of the shock (the bit that slides in and out of the top bit) when on the ramps was 3" the o/s was 4" then when i jacked up the car and took the weight off the wheels the d/s was 4" and the o/s was 4" 3/4......so obviously these dont match which could be why the wheel rubs.....but

why are my shocks like this?

will changing them solve this problem?

whats the rough height they are supposed to be?

thanks

[Cooperman]

The shock absorbers (dampers really) do nothing in respect of the ride height. They are just there to damp out the spring activity.
The ride height is controlled by the distance from the knuckle joint in the top arm to the top seat of the rubber spring at the top of the sub-frame tower.
I've never seen a bent top arm, ever, so assuming that yours is not bent, then the problem can be one of two basic things:

1. The plastic cup in the top arm has split and is allowint the ball joint to sitfurther into the top arm, or,
2. The rubber spring is worn and its total depth has reduced.

Of course, if the conical trumpet between the base of the rubber spring and the knuckle ball is adjustable - as with the 'Hi-Lo' trumpet, it could just neeed adjusting, but it should not suddenly move and you make no mention of having 'Hi-Lo's'.

You will need a 'tower tool' to compress the rubber spring in order to remove the conical trumpet and inspect the cup/knuckle and replace as necessary.
If the rubber cone is worn out, then the topa rm will need to come off in order rubber spring and fit the new one.to remove the

[charie t]

The bar you "bent back" sounds very much like a tiebar. How did you bend it? Heavy duty ones or new ones would be better idea.
As the dampers are different lengths on full droop. Check the rebound rubbers are intact. Are the dampers a matched pair?

[Remylebleu]

nope no hi, lo's.....they are a matching pair of dampers...and tie arm rings a bell. i caught the bottom of the car on a slab that was sticking up and it bent.

i really dont understand about rubber cones and knuckles.....so if i read the manual would these parts have the same names as you described? (so i can work out what you mean lol)

why would these cones and what not make my one damper smaller than the other? i mean when the cars on the floor and i measure the damper the right is shorter (compressed more) then the left (o/s) so my cars tilted.....if it was the cones and what not, then would my dampers be the same length but one would be sitting lower than the other because the cone is knackered?

ill explain the best i can because i dont think ive explained properly....if you put two empty bean tins on the floor and put two gas struts on top they would be the same height....if one strut crushed the empty tin it would sit lower down but the strut would still be the same length yes? but mine arent and i dont think logically that it would compress more if the empty got crushed.....it would just start from a lower height, if you get what i mean?

[Dan]

I took your description to mean that the bottom mounting pin of the shock was bent, and you bent it back. If that was the case then whatever caused it could very well have also bent the shock rod itself. If the shock is bent it could be prevented from extending to full length which would cause the wheel that side to hang higher when the car is lifted. It would have only minimal effect on the length of the shock once the weight of the car is on it though so shouldn't be what's causing the car to sit at an angle. In your first thread about the problem, you failed to mention you had crashed the car into a paving slab, all kinds of things could be bent. Please post some photos if you can, it would help if we can see the suspension, its mountings and the detail of each side of the subframe.

[Remylebleu]

i got some pics.....not sure how to upload them on here though haha ill try..............

[Remylebleu]

ill upload the pics some time tonight as im at work and can access my email account.

[Carlos W]

I upload photos to photobucket then copy the IMG code into the thread!

Dead easy!

[Cooperman]

It's unlikely to be a bent damper or damper pin. However, if you have bent the tie rod which is the rod which goes from the very front of the frame to the outer end of the lower suspension arm you could also have bent the 'ear' onto which the tie rod mounts at the very front. If you take the wheel off and have a good look you'll see how it all works. The comment about the wheel rubbing might indicate that the 'ear' is bent back. This happens a lot on rally cars when they 'go off the road' and the fix is to remove the tie bar, heat up the ear and bend it back, then re-inforce it with a triangular plate welded in place. To do that needs measuring accurately and correct setting-up. In a worst-case the actual sub-frame could be bent, but let's not go there just yet.
The dampers have no effect on the ride height. They freely extend against a bit of fluid pressure inside them and take the length to suit when fitted. Yes, if you have managed to actually bend a damper it could jam in one position or fail to extend fully, but this would be highly unusual.
Look at the suspension from the side. You'll see the upper arm which goes inwards from the swivelling steering hub to mount in the sub-frame, and the lower arm, naturally at the bottom also going from the steering hub to the sub-frame. Onto the lower arm is fitted the tie rod which positions the entire hub in the forward/backwards plane.
Now look at the inner end of the top arm. There you will see what looks like a small trumpet set vertically. At the lower end of the trumpet is a rubber cover and under this is the knuckle joint which locates the trumpet into the top arm. The knuckle joint is actually a ball end in the trumpet sitting in a plastic cup which itself is fitted into a recess in the upper side of the top arm. If this plastic cup splits (this is a common problem) then the ball can go further into the cup and the suspension drops, lowering the ride height.
Above the trumpet, and just able to be seen is the rubber suspension spring cone which is the basis of the Mini's super suspension design. Over time these can go a bit harder and compress somewhat which allows the ride height to drop. To change the rubber spring cone requires removal of the top arm and trumpet for which a special tool known as a 'tower tool' is necessary. You need a decent tool kit to attempt this level of suspension work as wlll.
I hope this helps you to understand where to look for your problem and Haynes Manual will definately help, although it does assume that you can already identify the various parts and what they do to make the suspension work.

[Remylebleu]

that helped me understand abit more....im more of a descrptive person (because i dont know the names) lol im just going to try photobucket or what ever its called

[Remylebleu]

hopefully this has worked because it took long enough!

and in the pics if the wheel is on the right its the o/s......left its the drivers side just incase

[Cerberus]

Nothing there looks massively wrong.

You've got a bump stop missing.

The fact that the top arms aren't touching the bumpstops means the cones haven't completely collapsed.


It'd be good if you could mark on the photos the thing you bent back.


And the rear dampers on mine had slightly different lengths when fully extended. Mainly because one damper was doing no absorbing at all, and the other had a little absorption left in it.

As has been said though, the dampers have no effect on ride height. You can put the car down with no dampers on, all they do is damp the suspension.

[Remylebleu]

whats a bump stop?

7th photo down, the slim rod that runs from the rubber joint to the front of the bodywork was bent

[Cooperman]

Yes, definately a missing bump stop on one side. The bump stop is the rubberlump which points downwards from the sub-frame and sits above the top arm. It is there to stop excess upwards movement of the suspension over really big bumps. It doesn't have any bearing on the ride height, but you should have one.
There doesn't appear to be anything obviously wrong.
A suggestion is to remove both dampers, set the car on a level road, drive it backwards and forwards a few yards to settle the ride height, then accurately measure the height from the ground to the highest point on the wheel arch each side. They should be the same.
Personally I suspect it is the knuckle joint cup which has split, but until you have measured it and, if necessary, stripped it down you won't know for sure.
I'm not wishing to be unkind, but I think, from your questions, that you'll need some more expert help to do thisn work, if I may say so. We can support you so far, but you may need someone with you to help & advise. Where are you located?

Edited to add that I see you're in Birmingham. There must be someone on here from Brum who could help a bit.

Edited by Cooperman, 14 February 2011 - 11:15 PM.

[Dan]

So it was indeed a tie rod (the ball joints aren't rubber by the way!). As Cooperman said, what is the tie rod mounting at the front end like? Has it been boshed?

The fact that the top arms aren't touching the bumpstops means the cones haven't completely collapsed.

Is the car on the ground here? All I can really see from those photos is that both your dampers appear to be blown (the damp appearance around the telescopic joint tends to indicate leakage which means failure).