33 replies to this topic

[olly917]

Here's what i've found on bay n the best bit lots of colours to choose from! Have a look n see what u think, I have sent them a msg so ile keep u all posted!

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...a2#ht_523wt_689

[Dan]

But 2nd what's with all the argumentative talk about legalities and so on! If the tool is as expensive as suggested then the £400/500 which I said the quote was probably seems abit more reasonable,

Well nobody has actually mentioned legality so far but I think I should add just a little bit here. What you have been quoted a high price for is I don't doubt a set of swaged lines. Properly made with swaged ends that have to be closed by a hydraulic swager to several tonnes and that are permanant. Everyone else is talking about compression fittings. It is my belief, although I may be wrong, that compression brake lines are not legal for use on production cars. Some but not all compression fittings are legal for road use on cars that have passed the SVA / IVA tests but that does not make them legal for cars that are type approved. The test will ensure that the lines are correctly assembled using the correct parts and hose, type approval ensures this by approving properly manufactured parts and processes for critical things like brake lines rather than by individually assessing every vehicle. If you wanted to make it legal to fit compression hoses to the car it would have to be IVA tested as I understand it. I may as I said be wrong here but I've been having a look around for anything written down either way and can't find anything. I'm not questioning your abilities but what you are talking about isn't simply fitting anything, it's manufacturing parts that have to be made by a certain process and to a certain standard with provable engineering.

Since HEL custom make lines and hoses you might find it cheaper to go straight to them rather than through a third party on ebay, HEL make very good quality hoses and I have some on my car. They will be swaged but don't expect cheapness.

[Dolly 89]

There's no real need to tell them anything, until their assessor looks at your wrecked shell and starts asking questions and then you wish you'd told them everything. Liability insurance required to make brake parts professionally costs a fortune, insurance companies do not like home made or modified brake parts and the reasons should be obvious.

well now thats just bull, you need to tell your insurer about every single mod that has been done to your car or you are not insured. When i have ever told insurance about any mod including my braded hoses on the last mini i had, i have never been asked if they where home made or who manufactured them, if it wasnt aloud to be home made they would ask you and then not insure because of that reason. If i was to go out and buy a car like i did to be honest with raded lines already fitted how would i know if they where home made or not? Would i therefor not be insured if i crashed because i was unaware that the lines where home made, if things are going to get that bad you should have to have your car inspected before anyone will insure you because there can be no way of the insurance company sneeking out of paying then unless a change is made afterwards.

[dgear1984]

Hi everyone, thought I would share this with u all n see if your as shocked as me! I'm doing a 89 rebuild n stripped the car n refurbished my shell n engine, I seen the braided brake lines on minisports bogus 2 and fancied doing the same to mine!

On enquiring about if it can be done n price I was u can say bait shocked, an average set of complete brake lines is about £80, the braided ones.................................£400/£500 wow

Don't think I'm up for paying that but was wondering if it could be done by myself, does anyone know were I can buy the required parts from?

)

try goodridge

[Burnard]

Surely if compression fittings on brakes liners were illegal and considered unsafe, they would fail an MOT.
Mine havent... and my MOT man is pretty picky.

And in any case, aren't all brake fittings compression fits anyway, just different ways of compressing them

[AndyMiniMad.]

I think there is a difference in the manufacture of parts, and the assembly of pre-manufactured parts. Where does lhe liability lie? If you bought all the bits and assembled them to the manufacturers specification and then one of the parts failed, Who is to blame? You for making your own stuff? or the manufacturer for making faulty kit?

[Deathrow]

There's no real need to tell them anything, until their assessor looks at your wrecked shell and starts asking questions and then you wish you'd told them everything. Liability insurance required to make brake parts professionally costs a fortune, insurance companies do not like home made or modified brake parts and the reasons should be obvious.

well now thats just bull, you need to tell your insurer about every single mod that has been done to your car or you are not insured. When i have ever told insurance about any mod including my braded hoses on the last mini i had, i have never been asked if they where home made or who manufactured them, if it wasnt aloud to be home made they would ask you and then not insure because of that reason. If i was to go out and buy a car like i did to be honest with raded lines already fitted how would i know if they where home made or not? Would i therefor not be insured if i crashed because i was unaware that the lines where home made, if things are going to get that bad you should have to have your car inspected before anyone will insure you because there can be no way of the insurance company sneeking out of paying then unless a change is made afterwards.

It is the responsibility of the driver to disclose any and all information about modifications which have been made to their vehicle. It is not the job of the insurance broker to ask every question imaginable about your car in order to get the full story. So what Dan is saying is not "bull", if you don't want to use his advice then fair enough prepare yourself for the concequences just in case.

Surely if compression fittings on brakes liners were illegal and considered unsafe, they would fail an MOT.
Mine havent... and my MOT man is pretty picky.

And in any case, aren't all brake fittings compression fits anyway, just different ways of compressing them

First of all, it is important to differentiate the MOT from what is and isn't legal. An MOT is a series of checks which are performed in certain areas to evaluate how safe your car is on the road. You can pass an MOT without a fog light on a later vehicle, however this is illegal. You can also pass an MOT with the wheels sticking out of the arches, this is also illegal.

Secondly, I think Dan is specifically talking about braided lines, I'm not sure solid copper lines suffer the same issue as copper deforms very easily, allowing it to seal under a small amount of pressure on the union.

[shaddy]

have you had a look at these,

this is where i plan to get my fuel lines from and brake lines. sell the tools to do the job as well

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/torques_uk

[Burnard]

There's no real need to tell them anything, until their assessor looks at your wrecked shell and starts asking questions and then you wish you'd told them everything. Liability insurance required to make brake parts professionally costs a fortune, insurance companies do not like home made or modified brake parts and the reasons should be obvious.

well now thats just bull, you need to tell your insurer about every single mod that has been done to your car or you are not insured. When i have ever told insurance about any mod including my braded hoses on the last mini i had, i have never been asked if they where home made or who manufactured them, if it wasnt aloud to be home made they would ask you and then not insure because of that reason. If i was to go out and buy a car like i did to be honest with raded lines already fitted how would i know if they where home made or not? Would i therefor not be insured if i crashed because i was unaware that the lines where home made, if things are going to get that bad you should have to have your car inspected before anyone will insure you because there can be no way of the insurance company sneeking out of paying then unless a change is made afterwards.

It is the responsibility of the driver to disclose any and all information about modifications which have been made to their vehicle. It is not the job of the insurance broker to ask every question imaginable about your car in order to get the full story. So what Dan is saying is not "bull", if you don't want to use his advice then fair enough prepare yourself for the concequences just in case.

Surely if compression fittings on brakes liners were illegal and considered unsafe, they would fail an MOT.
Mine havent... and my MOT man is pretty picky.

And in any case, aren't all brake fittings compression fits anyway, just different ways of compressing them

First of all, it is important to differentiate the MOT from what is and isn't legal. An MOT is a series of checks which are performed in certain areas to evaluate how safe your car is on the road. You can pass an MOT without a fog light on a later vehicle, however this is illegal. You can also pass an MOT with the wheels sticking out of the arches, this is also illegal.

Secondly, I think Dan is specifically talking about braided lines, I'm not sure solid copper lines suffer the same issue as copper deforms very easily, allowing it to seal under a small amount of pressure on the union.

Exactly, if they are illegal, its because they are unsafe, or of unproven safety, Therefore, they WOULD fail and MOT because they would deem your car un roadworthy.

If a fog light falls off it wont kill anyone, so the car is safe to use on the road, same with the wheel arches.
If a brake line falls off, this is unsafe, and could kill someone. So should fail and MOT.

I see what you mean, and i know there are loads of things which pass an MOT which arent legal, but almost all of them are not integral to the actual operation of the vehicle.

[Deathrow]

Exactly, if they are illegal, its because they are unsafe, or of unproven safety, Therefore, they WOULD fail and MOT because they would deem your car un roadworthy.

If a fog light falls off it wont kill anyone, so the car is safe to use on the road, same with the wheel arches.
If a brake line falls off, this is unsafe, and could kill someone. So should fail and MOT.

I see what you mean, and i know there are loads of things which pass an MOT which arent legal, but almost all of them are not integral to the actual operation of the vehicle.

Your post appears to contradict itself. But anyway:

You're travelling down the motorway at 70MPH and your fog light falls off and you think that is fine? That foglight could smash someones windscreen or burst a tyre, of course it's dangerous. However that wasn't my point.

Back on topic anyway!

[Dolly 89]

There's no real need to tell them anything, until their assessor looks at your wrecked shell and starts asking questions and then you wish you'd told them everything. Liability insurance required to make brake parts professionally costs a fortune, insurance companies do not like home made or modified brake parts and the reasons should be obvious.

well now thats just bull, you need to tell your insurer about every single mod that has been done to your car or you are not insured. When i have ever told insurance about any mod including my braded hoses on the last mini i had, i have never been asked if they where home made or who manufactured them, if it wasnt aloud to be home made they would ask you and then not insure because of that reason. If i was to go out and buy a car like i did to be honest with raded lines already fitted how would i know if they where home made or not? Would i therefor not be insured if i crashed because i was unaware that the lines where home made, if things are going to get that bad you should have to have your car inspected before anyone will insure you because there can be no way of the insurance company sneeking out of paying then unless a change is made afterwards.

It is the responsibility of the driver to disclose any and all information about modifications which have been made to their vehicle. It is not the job of the insurance broker to ask every question imaginable about your car in order to get the full story. So what Dan is saying is not "bull", if you don't want to use his advice then fair enough prepare yourself for the concequences just in case.

I think you need to have a re read of what you wrothe there because you contradict yourself alot, When dan said you dont have to tell the insurance anything, i then said that was bull, which in turn you then said what dan said wasnt bull so according to you it is perfectly fine to not tell the insurance anything, but before saying that in your post you say it is the responsibility of the driver to tell the insurance everything, I think you need to make your mind up. If i was to tell insurance about braded lines thats it then i have told them about that mod theres no need to do anything else surely, how can i tell if something is home made or not?

[Dan]

Well as can clearly be seen in the post I started with 'There's no need..." I was being ironic. Deathrow clearly understood that, as did most readers I would imagine. I would also imagine you understood exactly what he meant too. Of course you have to tell them. You can't tell if they are manufactured professionally or not and if you don't know you have nothing to tell them, but then if you had made them then you do know and should tell them. If you don't you are withholding a material fact. You have to tell them about anything that is different from what they might reasonably expect it to be in order for them to properly calculate the risk.

I really did think we might get away without anyone mentioning the MOT in this. Oh well here we go again...

The MOT, just like mainstream insurance, expects your car to be a production vehicle. People who build and modify their own cars produce I estimate under 2% of the total number of vehicles on our roads. The MOT isn't designed with them specifically in mind. If you look at what the MOT is actually assessing it's there purely to keep track of the maintenance of your vehicle, it assesses things that might reasonably wear out in use and go un-noticed. That's why new cars don't need an MOT for 3 years. It assumes the car was built legally in the first place, you can't expect every car to be hauled through a comprehensive type approval every year. It would take hours. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure the car is road legal, anything you modify you are responsible for. It is only possible to fail an MOT for things specifically listed in the MOT manual as a reason for rejection. They don't check the approval or construction of each component. You can fail for broken, worn, stretch or kinked brake lines and I believe even for corrosion of brake line ferrules, but the way they are made is assumed to be right in the first place.

Anyhow this thread has gone way off topic which I suspect is my fault and I apologise. I'll add nothing more here.

[me madjoe 90]

If braded lines were not safe/strong do you think they would allow them in motorsport with all the safety regs I dont think they would. The cars are punished driven hard but the lines hold up......

Also bikes use them as standerd so I dont see why they would be a problem. If anything the fact they are less likely to corrode away and fail makes them more safe.

[Dolly 89]

If braded lines were not safe/strong do you think they would allow them in motorsport with all the safety regs I dont think they would. The cars are punished driven hard but the lines hold up......

Also bikes use them as standerd so I dont see why they would be a problem. If anything the fact they are less likely to corrode away and fail makes them more safe.

The point is though that not everyone will make them to such a high standard if they make them at home

[Dolly 89]

Well as can clearly be seen in the post I started with 'There's no need..." I was being ironic. Deathrow clearly understood that, as did most readers I would imagine. I would also imagine you understood exactly what he meant too. Of course you have to tell them. You can't tell if they are manufactured professionally or not and if you don't know you have nothing to tell them, but then if you had made them then you do know and should tell them. If you don't you are withholding a material fact. You have to tell them about anything that is different from what they might reasonably expect it to be in order for them to properly calculate the risk.

I understood exactly what you meant and came back with a bit of a sarcastic comment myself which people didnt seem to realise but oh well. The thing i dont understand is though because if you tell them you have braded lines its irrelivant who made them really because who is going to make them that is not competant to make them? Your not really holding anything back by not telling your insurance company they are homemade because they dont need to know or they would want to know the make of everything else on the car which i know for sure my insurance company didnt care about, all i told them was that i had alloys on that where bigger than standard, i had uprated braded brake lines with drilled grooved discs, a roll cage etc etc... they dont need to know who made them all just what they are so why are brakes any different, well infact i know they aren't because my insurance company didnt want to know the make of any of my modifications so i didn't tell them.