124 replies to this topic

[mini93]

Your bike probably does, but suspension on cars isnt like bikes because on the bike their direct acting, should be thought more like the rear suspension, acting on a moment or pivot point... where your front suspension might have close up 120mm travel if your rears had that much travel it would have to go on a huge ark to complete from full compression to droop.

which is like a minis suspension, the moment in which the arms go about on a mini is closer to the pivot point, this reduces the amount of travle required, but usualy requires stiffer springs and puts more stress into mounting points which is why the subframes beafy

[holmesy]

easy to drift :) in my standard 998

bull, you cant "drift" a front wheel drive car

i more than willing to take you out and prove, go into a roundabout, drop it into 2nd and put your foot down and flick the steering to the right, far enough its not like a full on 50 drift but still long enough to get to the next exit, have also drifted other front wheeled drive cars round the track including the ards test vehicle Peugeot RCZ

[Richey]

I wouldn't drive anything else.

[yousmeg]

Your bike probably does, but suspension on cars isnt like bikes because on the bike their direct acting, should be thought more like the rear suspension, acting on a moment or pivot point... where your front suspension might have close up 120mm travel if your rears had that much travel it would have to go on a huge ark to complete from full compression to droop.

which is like a minis suspension, the moment in which the arms go about on a mini is closer to the pivot point, this reduces the amount of travle required, but usualy requires stiffer springs and puts more stress into mounting points which is why the subframes beafy

that explains it. the rear of my pushbike has 5 & 1/2" of travel,

[cooperdan]

people still going on about mini handling, Thought i cleared this up , Mini's handle bloody wonderful, and if yours is not then you got some issues..

[mini-luke]

Mine didn't handle very well when I got it. Changed all 4 ball joints, how it's quieter and handles better. £18 well spent!

[valve bounce]

easy to drift :) in my standard 998

bull, you cant "drift" a front wheel drive car

i more than willing to take you out and prove, go into a roundabout, drop it into 2nd and put your foot down and flick the steering to the right, far enough its not like a full on 50 drift but still long enough to get to the next exit, have also drifted other front wheeled drive cars round the track including the ards test vehicle Peugeot RCZ

that's not a drift, that's lift off oversteer

[CMXCVIII]

easy to drift :) in my standard 998

bull, you cant "drift" a front wheel drive car

i more than willing to take you out and prove, go into a roundabout, drop it into 2nd and put your foot down and flick the steering to the right, far enough its not like a full on 50 drift but still long enough to get to the next exit, have also drifted other front wheeled drive cars round the track including the ards test vehicle Peugeot RCZ

that's not a drift, that's lift off oversteer

if you look up old photos of John Rhodes in the 1960s, he was drifting a Mini

[Cooperman]

As Rauno Altonen used to say "Full power, little bit left foor braking and now sliding nicely through corner!"

[Mini_Magic]

easy to drift :) in my standard 998

bull, you cant "drift" a front wheel drive car

i more than willing to take you out and prove, go into a roundabout, drop it into 2nd and put your foot down and flick the steering to the right, far enough its not like a full on 50 drift but still long enough to get to the next exit, have also drifted other front wheeled drive cars round the track including the ards test vehicle Peugeot RCZ

that's not a drift, that's lift off oversteer

if you look up old photos of John Rhodes in the 1960s, he was drifting a Mini

Was his Mini converting to RWD then?

You cannot "drift" a FWD car.

A drift is where you send power to the rear wheels to keep the car over steering.

Lift off over-steer or pulling the handbrake up in a McDonalds car park is not a drift.

[CMXCVIII]

easy to drift :) in my standard 998

bull, you cant "drift" a front wheel drive car

i more than willing to take you out and prove, go into a roundabout, drop it into 2nd and put your foot down and flick the steering to the right, far enough its not like a full on 50 drift but still long enough to get to the next exit, have also drifted other front wheeled drive cars round the track including the ards test vehicle Peugeot RCZ

that's not a drift, that's lift off oversteer

if you look up old photos of John Rhodes in the 1960s, he was drifting a Mini

Was his Mini converting to RWD then?

You cannot "drift" a FWD car.

A drift is where you send power to the rear wheels to keep the car over steering.

Lift off over-steer or pulling the handbrake up in a McDonalds car park is not a drift.

It must have changed since the days when I raced both front and rear wheel drive cars - - I mean racing against the clock and against other cars, not trying to hold the tail out and wear out the rear tyres to impress spectators which has got b*gger all to do with handling!

Back then, real drifting meant holding a car in a four-wheel balanced state, with neither front or rear breakaway greater than the other.

The traditional picture of a car drifiting was Louis Klemantaski's famous photo of Fangio's Maserati in a four wheel drift down the hill at Rouen. Equally I remember seeing pictures of John Rhodes cornering his front wheel drive Mini [at Woodcote?] under power and the whole car is demonstrably drifting round the corner.

[Cooperman]

I have a photo somewhere of my 'S' in Crychan Forest in Wales. It is about 15 degrees sideways with full power on, just a hint of opposite lock and is drifting beautifully. And I didn't left-foot brake it as it simply didn't need it.

The subject of this thread was Mini handling, not the road-holding characteristics. Handling is the way the car responds to the inputs of power, steering and braking and the predictability of the car when these various inputs are apploied. It is nothing to do with how the car holds the road or hom much 'G' it can sustain through a corner. So, yes, a well set-up Mini will handle well - exactly as expected in the hands of an experienced driver. It will normally give you a bit of warning that you are getting towards the limit, but often not very much warning, unlike, say, an Escort Mk.1 which gives loads of warning. IMHO the best handling Minis were those on skinny wheels and tyres, but that's probably because the road-holding was not as good and it all happened at lower speeds.

[AVV IT]

The subject of this thread was Mini handling, not the road-holding characteristics.

Yeah but to be fair Uncle Cooperman, I really don't think that the vast majority of people actually are aware that there is a difference between the two. it's a very common misconception and I certainly didn't know that what I referred to as "handling" was actually "road holding", until you pointed it out on various threads here on TMF. It's clearly a bit of a "pet hate" of yours though, as you mention it here quite a lot.

When most people talk about how a car "handles", I think that they are probably actually talking about its "road holding", as you describe it. I maybe be wrong, but I would imagine that this thread is actually supposed to be about the road holding of the classic mini, even though it's entitled "do minis really handle that well".

Edited by AVV IT, 26 March 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Ethel]

It's an argument you can never resolve. If you want a more subjective comparison I think you'd have to look at motor sport and where Minis are the most competitive.

Basic physics is on their side though.
Smaller (means the steering input is proportionally less to follow any given radius of turn)
Lighter ( there's less inertia to overcome to go around that turn)
Lower (less roll giving better weight distribution)
Smaller wheels (less gyroscopic effect to overcome when steering & less unsprung weight)
Centre of mass (Mini's is well ahead of the centre of drag making it inherently stable - throw a dart or ask a pilot
Trailing arm rear suspension (gives zero bump steer)

[ministar]

Change from good tyres to budget tyres, (same wheels though)

You will soon know the difference. Skinny tyres (for example 12'' 145's) are great for response and handling. But good tyres (12'' 165's) have good road holding. Its getting the balance and understanding of what the car is going to do is the key.

Most normal mini's handle well. And when slighty modified from standard 'can' have good road holding. There is, however, alot of variables.

I agree with ethel too!