83 replies to this topic

[minimissionary]

The Nazis have come back into power, but disguised themselves and crept up on us.

[craig 1010cc]

on the lost revenue front, there will be an increase in the numbers of new cars sold as large numbers of otherwise servicable cars are scrapped because it will cost more than they are worth to either return to stock or get to comply (or that's what the manufacturers are hoping for)

[jaydee]

I hope people are right, but bear in mind we have a habit of following stupid EU laws whilst the rest of Europe sign up then ignore them.

True.
If that law passes, i wont be back to the uk with my mini

[Algordo1100]

So. in my household, even if we discount the 'classics'- (my minis, Mercs, etc..)- and take the everyday vehicles. Every one of them would be illegal?
My Nissan Primera has holes cut in the parcel shelf for non standard speakers and a wiper conversion to flat blades. My partners Ford fiesta has different front seats from it's originals because she is too short to see out and needed height adjustment, and also has stereo upgrades. And our Mazda Bongo.. well that left the factory as a people carrier with 7 passenger seats, but is now a camper van with cooking facilities, storage and a bed. .Plus the electrics are altered, it now has a leisure battery, inverter and mains hook up. These modifications where done by a company specialising in such camper conversions. So not only will my vehicles be illegal, but so will the companies that carried out the works, as they will be operating outside the law by performing such 'modifications?'

The ramification of such a 'proposal' seem so huge to me that I cannot even conceive that it should become reality. Its like a joke, a bad April fools prank. I don't know what to say!

Al

[Brams96]

We could be like the French truckers & block the roads but instead we block the roads around parliment with all kinds of classic & modified cars. Then lets see the MP's get to work in their chaufer driven cars & taxi's. Make them walk. It'd be interesting to know where these MP's lived & block the roads around their homes too that might make them sit up & notice! Bringing central London streets to a standstill would make them notice. I'm sure if all the car clubs got involved it wouldn't be that hard to organise via facebook & twitter.

[surfblue63]

Has anyone actually read the proposal?
It is a proposal about safety testing (MoTs and the like) and how they should be carried out.

It mentions nothing about vehicle modifications being banned.

Have a read, it is not as bad as some of the scaremongers out there would have you believe. It is more about bringing the rest of Europe into line, most of the proposal is already in force here, in fact it propses that the MOT should be every two years, not every year.
Also it states that when tested a car should at minimum meet the safety and emmissions when it was first used.
The only mention of modifications is in the classification of historic vehicles, thus if a vehicle is modified it will not have classic status. Also the proposal is not for historic vehicles.

Here's a link to the proposal, have a good read to see what it is all about.

http://ec.europa.eu/...om(2012)380.pdf

Edited by surfblue63, 22 August 2012 - 11:09 PM.

[Tomm]

I would be right up **** creek if that one came in

[Cooperman]

There seems to be a lot of over-reaction on here. Read the text of the document issued by the EU.


It says:


"... introduce a definition for a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration. ..................."

As I read it, it doesn't say that a vehicle can't be modified, it says that components must comply with the CHARACTERISTICS at the time of first registration. So if you fit higher rate springs, or dampers with increased stiffness, the characteristics are the same in terms of how the parts operate and it's unlikely that the spring rates or damping rates could or would be measured. It doesn't say SPECIFICATIONS, it says CHARACTERISTICS. There is a big difference.

Of course, if you lower the car till it's almost on the bump stops, fit extra-wide wheels with ultra-low-profile tyres, a huge rear spoiler, 'mega-noise-booster' exhaust system, coil springs or coil-over dampers, rear beam suspension, fibreglass front, etc, then expect problems and probably an IVA test.

With modifications like suspension up-rating at standard ride height, subtle engine mods., better brake pads, improved suspension bushes, better lights (Cibie, for example), better seats, and so on it it doubtful that the characteristics could be deemed to have changed or even that the MoT station would take any interest so long as the emissions were OK and the rest of the car looked safe and met tyre and suspension limits for wear. The audio system, battery size, wiper blades, and other interior stuff is not a characteristic involving the safety or the environment which is what the document is about, if you take the trouble to read it and not just panic. It says:

‘roadworthiness test’ means a verification that the parts and components of a vehicle
comply with its safety and environmental characteristics in force at the time of
approval, first registration or entry into service, as well as at the time of retrofitting.

With Historic cars so long as they are to the homologation standards of the original cars, e.g. only have the optional extras as specified by the original manufacturer, there should not be a problem. So 'period modifications using O.E.M parts' should be fine IMHO.

Edited by Cooperman, 22 August 2012 - 11:22 PM.

[minimissionary]

Panic over.
The bit about old/high mileage vehicles is a bit ambiguous, though.

[minimissionary]

By the way......http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/233370-another-eu-move-could-wipe-the-scene-dead/

[jaydee]

OEM/period modifications are alowed in the EU,
ie: you dont need an homologation test (corrispondent to an IVA) to fit an RC40 exhaust (as long as it passes the noise level test)
but you cant fit later wheels to early models..
ie: i own an austin mini, i've fitted 165r12 tyres, i should get an homologation test (IVA) because the wheels are homologated for rover minis..basically you pay some money to have a guy looking at the car and writing something to your v5.
Been there, done that. Ouch- i didnt carry any test for my wheel, but thats another story ;)

[Ethel]

‘roadworthiness test’ means a verification that the parts and components of a vehicle

comply with its safety and environmental characteristics in force at the time of
approval, first registration or entry into service, as well as at the time of retrofitting.

Well it appears to say you either maintain it to its original spec, or any modifications must be to the approval standard at the time they were carried out (the "as well as at the time of retrofitting" bit).

This is the Directive they'll be using to check up on you: http://eur-lex.europ...20110224:EN:PDF

You probably haven't got a few spare weeks to read it, but looking at the Annexes is enlightening.

The details recorded on a vehicle approval application (Annex 1) is comprehensive to say the least, I dare say at least the last Minis produced had something similar submitted for them.

So, if you fit anything to your car that isn't listed in your particular model's equivalent of Annex 1, you'll be fine as long as the modification complies with the following:

1. Permissible sound level Directive 70/157/EEC
2. Emissions Directive 70/220/EEC
2a. Emissions (Euro 5 and 6) light-duty vehicles/access to information Regulation (EC) No 715/2007
3. Fuel tanks/Rear protective devices Directive 70/221/EEC
4. Rear registration plate space Directive 70/222/EEC
5. Steering effort Directive 70/311/EEC
6. Door latches and hinges Directive 70/387/EEC
7. Audible warning Directive 70/388/EEC
8. Rear visibility Directive 71/127/EEC
8a. Indirect vision devices Directive 2003/97/EC
9. Braking Directive 71/320/EEC
10. Radio interference (electromagnetic compatibility) Directive 72/245/EEC
11. Diesel smoke Directive 72/306/EEC
12. Interior fittings Directive 74/60/EEC
13. Anti-theft and immobiliser Directive 74/61/EEC
14. Protective steering Directive 74/297/EEC
15. Seat strength Directive 74/408/EEC
16. Exterior projections Directive 74/483/EEC
17. Speedometer and reverse gear Directive 75/443/EEC
18. Plates (statutory) Directive 76/114/EEC
19. Seat-belt anchorages Directive 76/115/EEC
20. Installation of lighting and light signalling devices Directive 76/756/EEC
21. Retro reflectors Directive 76/757/EEC
22. End-outline, front-position (side), rear position (side), stop, side marker, daytime running lamps Directive 76/758/EEC
23. Direction indicators Directive 76/759/EEC
24. Rear registration plate lamps Directive 76/760/EEC
25. Headlamps (including bulbs) Directive 76/761/EEC
26. Front fog lamps Directive 76/762/EEC
27. Towing hooks Directive 77/389/EEC
28. Rear fog lamps Directive 77/538/EEC
29. Reversing lamps Directive 77/539/EEC
30. Parking lamps Directive 77/540/EEC
31. Seat-belts and restraint systems Directive 77/541/EEC
32. Forward vision Directive 77/649/EEC
33. Identification of controls, tell-tales and indicators Directive 78/316/EEC
34. Defrost/demist Directive 78/317/EEC
35. Wash/wipe Directive 78/318/EEC
36. Heating systems Directive 2001/56/EC
37. Wheel guards Directive 78/549/EEC
38. Head restraints Directive 78/932/EEC
39. CO2 emissions/Fuel consumption Directive 80/1268/EEC
40. Engine power Directive 80/1269/EEC
41. Emissions (Euro IV and V) heavy-duty vehicles. Directive 2005/55/EC
42. Lateral protection Directive 89/297/EEC
43. Spray-suppression systems Directive 91/226/EEC
44. Masses and dimensions (cars) Directive 92/21/EEC
45. Safety glazing Directive 92/22/EEC
46. Tyres Directive 92/23/EEC

As anyone seen any mention of how you'd establish that? Some of it may not be covered by the current MoT, and we know how costly IVA is.

by the way, you get the impression they're pretty keen on clipping the wings of the IVA when you browse through all these publications.

[Lee_bash]

How is this enforced, mot's and roadside checks?

I saw a vosa roadside station once, underneath a motorway bridge at a junction. Place looked grim...

[minisilverbullet]

We have something like all this here in Sweden, replacement parts must be type approved for the vehicle, Similar to TUV. so any upgrades, or modifications are not allowed. with wheels there is some leeway --- wheels and tyres, which must be within a 5% rolling diamater to the original.

Though this is never enforced, how could it be! The resources needed and the extra training of every MOT tester would be impossible.

What this means to me that basically all my suspension components and brakes aren't type approved for the vehicle. LAst MOT tester, just said "oh all thats new and nice brakes!"

I wouldn't worry too much.

[jaydee]

Wheels have to be within 5% of the rolling diameter to access the homologation tests, where they measure the width, the track etc.. a ballache..
UK Mot tester are more scrupolous, acknoleadgeble and then less permissive than EU testers..