77 replies to this topic

[MIGLIACARS]

FROM THE START.
are you a new driver to racing?

its a well known fact that a new driver on a fwd car will complain of understeer.
first of all try slowing it down a little into the bend slow in fast out, once you have broke for a bend you should never lift again. as a rule of thumb.
and please never ever lift mid bend you will spin.

minis in general do understeer and the mid corner sliding is how skinny tyre d minis do react.
saying this in my first two years of racing a powerfull mini i had understeer problems which in the end turned out to be a broken lsd.
it surprises me that with an open diff you get understeer and not wheelspin.

to eliminate the problem a suspension expert will set it up for you but there expensive.
were are you from???????

to start with id take all that camber of the front run it at 0.5-1 for a starting point.
only change one thing at a time.
try lowering the tyre pressure s in the front.
also a bit more caster at the front.
leave the toe in neutral at the the rear 0.0. see how it feels if you feel you can handle more rear turning add a bit more. dont jump straight in the deep end.

also is there any other minis running those tyres, do you have the correct compound.
as im not familiar with them ive always used slicks.

you are doing the correct thing in staying with the underpowered engine until the problem is resolved.
a slippy diff can help pull a car into the bend but it seems you have other issues.
as mini miglia run open diffs and dont understeer massively.
but they to steer with the rear as well as the sevens.

[MIGLIACARS]

Great video's MIGLIACARS!!

thankyou

[MIGLIACARS]

FROM THE START.
are you a new driver to racing?

its a well known fact that a new driver on a fwd car will complain of understeer.
first of all try slowing it down a little into the bend slow in fast out, once you have broke for a bend you should never lift again. as a rule of thumb.
and please never ever lift mid bend you will spin.

minis in general do understeer and the mid corner sliding is how skinny tyre d minis do react.
saying this in my first two years of racing a powerfull mini i had understeer problems which in the end turned out to be a broken lsd.
it surprises me that with an open diff you get understeer and not wheelspin.

to eliminate the problem a suspension expert will set it up for you but there expensive.
were are you from???????

to start with id take all that camber of the front run it at 0.5-1 for a starting point.
only change one thing at a time.
try lowering the tyre pressure s in the front.
also a bit more caster at the front.
leave the toe in neutral at the the rear 0.0. see how it feels if you feel you can handle more rear turning add a bit more. dont jump straight in the deep end.

also is there any other minis running those tyres, do you have the correct compound.
as im not familiar with them ive always used slicks.

you are doing the correct thing in staying with the underpowered engine until the problem is resolved.
a slippy diff can help pull a car into the bend but it seems you have other issues.
as mini miglia run open diffs and dont understeer massively.
but they to steer with the rear as well as the sevens.

you will find in a mini corner speed is critical.
dont let the slower bigger cars slow you down.
keep your foot in and get close to the cars infront of you. if you touch them its there fault for being slow. dont ram but rubbing IS racing.
this is how minis are quick being quick in the bends. my front end always had marks on it after a race.

[Cooperman]

To be a bit more scientific about it there is a finite amount of total grip available in any given corner. It's not the total grip that can be changed, it's only the way the grip is used that can be 'adjusted' by suspension settings (assuming it's not way, way out to begin with).
Remember the old adage: stiffen up the roll resistance at one end and you'll increase the road-holding at the other.
The Mini is front-drive, so with power on it will tend to understeer unless you start with a bit of oversteer.
You need to set the suspension so that at the entry to the corner it starts to oversteer and then you can immediately get back hard on the power to keep the front in front. That is where a rear ARB comes into its own as it enables you to get the entry oversteer without having to soften the front dampers too much or over-harden the rear dampers.
Why not try a rear ARB and set the rear toe-in to 1 mm. Approach the corner quite fast (in comparative terms), brake late and let the back start to come out, then it's back hard on the power and keep it nailed all the way through the rest of the corner and into the straight.
if it does start to understeer you could just 'dab' the brake with your left foot to slide the back out a bit more whilst keeping full power on, but please, please practice this on an empty and wide track before using it in a race!

[Sputnik]

Dear All,

I would like to thank all of you for your valid input. I think I have some things to sort out.

1. My driving skills (and to get some guts and take the corner later)
2. Less Body roll
3. Optimise the suspension and see if I can get a ARB, if rules allow.

Just another question, I am runnning the plastic rover arches to cover the wheels. Is it really required to tub the wheel arch line at the back of the body to get the car low enough and not to touch around a corner ?? I cannot see if the mini sevens are doing so ? If i do have to tub the wheel arch line, which wheel arches wil I use then ??

Attached Files

•  DSC_0084.JPG   46.54K   25 downloads
•  DSC_0424.JPG   49.12K   20 downloads

Edited by Sputnik, 12 October 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Cooperman]

If you can't use an ARB you could experiment with setting the rear toe-in to almost zero. It will make the car less stable in a straight line, but will make the back step-out more easily as you enter a corner. Might be worth a try.
Another thing might be to use coil springs, again if the regs allow. Whilst coils are, IMHO, not as good on the road as rubber cone-springs, with a high poundage on a smooth track they can work well, or so I've been told. Alternatively, use the competition rubber cones which should work well.
Let us all know how it goes as you try different settings.

[jaydee]

1. My driving skills (and to get some guts and take the corner later)

To be fast,the enter a corner is not vital, but the exit of a corner is everything. Thats where you make the time.
Hit the apex of a turn then power on, never ever lift off, or you'll be loosing a lot a time..

[Cooperman]

Different successful drivers have used different techniques with success. Remember John Rhoades who used to have big understeer and lots of tyre smoking, then compare him with, say, John Handley who was smoother, in slightly sideways and neutral-steer through the corner. Whatever suits ones driving style and, at the same time, gives beat corner exit speed and thus best speed down the next straight is the way to do it.
I'm a rally person so I like the back end to be 'loose', but for racing you need to keep the car neutral with power on as early as possible in a corner and that means getting it verging on slight oversteer under braking with the back end becoming slightly loos as the brakes come off then itt's back hard on the power to kill the incipient oversteer and carry the inertia through the corner accelerating all the time.

[Sputnik]

Will it then be correct to say that: An ARB will only start to work (come into play) once a corner is taken very sharp and with the body roll that has reached the limited at which the ARB is set ? This will then allow for the rear wheels to "skid" a bit side ways that will reduce understeer. The ARB will only work on the sharp cornering ie entering of the corner and will reduce its affect once the car is busy straightening out ?

I can then also assume that if you have a fast right hand corner for example, that the ARB will have no affect on the steering as the car has not reached the required body roll as the ARB is not adjusted to work at this cornering angle.

Hope my questions make sense ???

[Artful Dodger]

1. My driving skills (and to get some guts and take the corner later)

To be fast,the enter a corner is not vital, but the exit of a corner is everything. Thats where you make the time.
Hit the apex of a turn then power on, never ever lift off, or you'll be loosing a lot a time..

I beg to differ, the entrance to a corner is very important!! It set you up for the exit and possibly the next corner. It's called a racinline for a reason, you don't just follow it on the exit of a corner

[Cooperman]

I'll say immediately that I'm a rally man rather than a racing man, but I have done a lot of work on rally car suspension and sometimes our high and softer cars have to do tests on race tracks. Whichever discipline you are competing in the key thing is always to get the best exit speed from a corner and that is achieved by getting back on the power as esarly as possible. With a Mini you brake later and more deeply into the beginning of a corner to set the car up with some oversteer as you come off the brakes, then kill this oversteer with power.
The actual suspension settings are what suits the driver and all drivers will like something a bit different. Some drivers are able to set their car up themselves, whilst others need some help.
All you can do is get the best settings you can yourself, then having test sessions and making small adjustments whilst seeing how they affect your lap times. Try a rear ARB and 'fiddle' with the settings or have several with different diameters. The bigger the diameter the more oversteer you will promote.
Try to find a suspension expert to help at testing.

[jaydee]

1. My driving skills (and to get some guts and take the corner later)

To be fast,the enter a corner is not vital, but the exit of a corner is everything. Thats where you make the time.
Hit the apex of a turn then power on, never ever lift off, or you'll be loosing a lot a time..

I beg to differ, the entrance to a corner is very important!! It set you up for the exit and possibly the next corner. It's called a racinline for a reason, you don't just follow it on the exit of a corner

totally agree your racing line take care of how you exit a corner, to have the smoothest exit so you can have full power earlier, you dont have to draw the line just thinking about the entry and 'i can brake 5 mt later so i can enter faster' then you have to lift off when exit the corner..its a common novice mistake.

I think we talking about the same thing summarized in two different ways, i wasnt very clear though.
Have to add i dont race minis, i'm a RWD guy when talking about trackdays..

[Ivor Badger]

looking ar your photos, it looks as though your rims are too narrow for the tyres. This is causing the tread to buckle under the tyre and leave you cornering on the tread edge. The biggest advantage of the rear anti roll bar is that you don't need to throw the rear as much entering a corner.

Edited by Ivor Badger, 15 October 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[Sputnik]

The wheels are 5" wide mistrals.

The tyres are 165/70/10 Dunlop D93J's.

Do I need a wider rim then ie 6" ?

The reason I ask is that swiftune mini runs 4.75" rostyle rims with 165 profile dunlops? or that is what I can figure out !

[Cooperman]

5" rims are fine with 165 section tyres and should work well. If you were running slick racing tyres it would be different.
What tyre pressures are you running. For full-on track use you need about 40 psi warm.