61 replies to this topic

[Ruckus]

Please put the Gennys at the front.

The loudest do not have the best rep, but run with the gains right down to just power the comps it should be ok.

But please amp the fronts, mini are so small you do not need amped rear speakers (if rears at all!).

[freshairmini]

For the price of the loudest amp (going by their website) you could have got a genesis profile or maybe series 3 amp which would have been a hundred times better!

[Ruckus]

For the price of the loudest amp (going by their website) you could have got a genesis profile or maybe series 3 amp which would have been a hundred times better!

He might have bought it secondhand, but yes I didn't what to upset the lad.

If its been bought via a website then under the remote selling act you can send it back for full refund (inc postage) just because you changed your mind and don't like the look of it.

[Petrol]

Thanks for the replies. I bought the amp off ebay for £72 delivered brand new. As the thread title says, I'm after advice and am not offended if I have bought a piece of junk!

I was intending fitting the Gennys at the rear since the boot makes a great speaker box. I thought these would be wasted as the pods that fit under the dash are small and open.
Should I fit them in the pods and if so, what would be the best amp for them?
I still want to fit some rear speakers, Is it worth using the loudest amp to drive the rears or should I just run them from the head unit?


Thanks for your help, it's very much appreciated
Pete

[Skortchio]

The Gennys deserve to be up front, you owe it to your ears!
A good amp for them would be a Genesis profile 4, which you can pick up for about £100 on talk audio and is a serious piece of kit for the money. Alternatively if you find a broken one on ebay you can have it refurbed for £80 by a lovely guy called Gordon who designed them, with warranty and all.

I'm running a set of audiophile 16.3's off a P4 bridged but you could easily run them off just 2 channels, leaving you 2 for the rears too. Genesis amps overproduce their amps by a healthy margin anyway.

For pods, you can build a set pretty easily (I managed it! ) or you could probably adapt the ones you have, they look pretty roomy so you could just box in the rear and you're good to go.
Make sure you leave the inside edge a bit of room to sit against the inner arch. If you do fit them in the rear, they'll still need pods as the boot won't provide much resistance to the excursion.

[Petrol]

If you do fit them in the rear, they'll still need pods as the boot won't provide much resistance to the excursion.

Thanks for the replies but I didn't quite understand the bit about resistance to the excursion.

I have returned the loudest amp and will replace it with a genesis 4. Does the 4 mean it will drive 4 speakers?

I fitted the genesis speakers in the pods and wired it up to the head unit on the bench. I wrapped towels to the back of the pods to create a temporary seal. It sounded good but was lacking bass. Is this due to the lack of volume in the pods or lack of power from the head unit? On previous Mini's I have owned, the speakers fitted into the parcel shelf always provided decent bass and I assume this was down to it's volume.

I guess the question is, will an amp provide decent bass to the fronts?

Thanks

Pete

[BishopMaverick]

If you do fit them in the rear, they'll still need pods as the boot won't provide much resistance to the excursion.

Thanks for the replies but I didn't quite understand the bit about resistance to the excursion.

Basically it's to do with air and pressure, it's a lot of physics and it took me awhile to get all the relationships, but in essence the right pressure will help both Sound quality and speed of response from the speaker... you can get really technical about it but just a brief idea there. The right pressure in the pods creates the resistance on the driver as it moves, this will allow the speakers to perform at their best in terms of volume (Sound), speed and sound quality. (If that sounds wrong please correct, I'm no expert, box tuning and volumes (size not sound) I understand but explaining it is not my strong point).

I have returned the loudest amp and will replace it with a genesis 4. Does the 4 mean it will drive 4 speakers?

Yes the amp will power 4 speakers or 2 speakers (fronts) and Subwoofer (not alot of power for it though) or just 2 speakers bridged (at around 140-150 watts RMS I think, don't quote me, which would be a bit mighty as I think your speakers are 80-90 watts RMS)

I fitted the genesis speakers in the pods and wired it up to the head unit on the bench. I wrapped towels to the back of the pods to create a temporary seal. It sounded good but was lacking bass. Is this due to the lack of volume in the pods or lack of power from the head unit?

There are a lot of variables on the bench, could be pods or the head unit or even the environment outside the box (compared to an enclosed little mini) but an amp does have potential (but I will not guarantee it will) to increase sound quality, volume (sound) and speed of your bass, how much it will effect each of these qualities (if it at all) will only become apparent when you rig the system up in the car. (Just so know it will most certainly improve the speakers overall I just can't guarantee it will improve all qualities equally, for example it may barely improve speed but really improve volume (amount of sound) and sound quality (and so on in every combination there in) it could also improve all of them but in different amounts)

On previous Mini's I have owned, the speakers fitted into the parcel shelf always provided decent bass and I assume this was down to it's volume.

Not sure if you mean volume in terms of sound from head unit or in terms of space in boot. If you mean in terms of space in the boot I guess it could increase volume (amount of noise) but the reasons for this could be many, on paper it shouldn't provide the correct pressure to the speaker but maybe it had an echo effect or some other factor I cannot account for. I will say that either speed or sound quality (or both) will have most probably suffered if volume (noise) didn't or was boosted. This is my opinion, and it is your sound system, the main things is that it gives you the most enjoyment to listen to and gives the results you are looking for and can afford.

I hope this has been of some help.

BM

[Skortchio]

Curious, I've stopped getting email notifications of topic updates.

Regarding the audiophile 16.03's, Gordon assures me that the neigh 160w per channel my P4 is putting out bridged will be handled without trouble by them.
Wouldn't suggest whacking to full right off the bat mind you, some attention to clipping might need paying

Your towel idea is sort of flawed in that the speakers will push the air through the towel, pods the size of the OA ones will need to be fully sealed to give you a good depth to the sound.
As BM says, chances are the bass from having them on the rear shelf is likely echo from bouncing around the boot area - kind of boomy as opposed to a tight punch.

Make the pods!

[Ruckus]

??

Unless you are looking for super audiophile sound quality or you have a sub mounted in the boot, you DO NOT need pods for rear speakers mounted on the rear shelf.

Unless the pods are large (10ltrs Plus) you will kill the low end excursion, and lose all the bass output.

Most mid bass or full range car speakers are designed for modern car doors 40ltrs or more air space! So they are able to handle free air (infinite baffle) installations.
As long and the air space in front is separated from the rear you're ok.

Yes ideally the left and right should not share air space but hay! This I not a sound off level build, as if it was why would he be even installing rears!

Edited by Ruckus, 19 April 2013 - 10:50 AM.

[Petrol]

Thanks very much for the replies, it's all very interesting and a bit more technical than I first thought! Have to say though it's nice to able able to plan this lot with the car at the bare shell stage.
Maybe it's best to go back to basics with my requirements...
The mods to the car will be minor, mainly uprated suspension. The stock airbox will remain as will the cat so it should be fairly quiet. Cat back will be an RC40.

I am not after super audiophile sound quality, just a good system with some balls. I am not after a sub that will rattle the windows to bits and make my fillings drop out - the suspension might do that though so, how does this sound?

Alpine CDE 9800Rhead unit
Genesis Profile 4 amp
Genesis Profile 2 way component speakers X 2 - pair for the front, pair for the rear

Rears to be fitted in the parcel shelf and tweeters in the C pillars
Fronts, well I could really do to fit them semi proud in the inner wing (Flitch panel) if at all poss. Don't know the implications of this though. Could wheel fouling be a problem? then there's the problem of the volume (of air) behind the speaker. If this is a prob I can always use the pods.

Assuming this lot sounds OK, it will need some proper cabling, what's my best bet for Phono / speaker cable? The plan is to fit the amp under the back seat.

As always thanks very much for your help, it's really appreciated

Pete

[iwatkins]

Hi Pete,

Good plan to start thinking/planning now. Even get it set up on the bench to test it, but it'll never sound as good as in the car though.

Another option for you. Mid and high frequencys from small speakers and then bass frequencies from slimline subs.

Did this in a Citroen C2 (twice) and I worked very well, sounded excellent but didn't impact on the practically of what was also a small car. Bear in mind, the higher the frequency, the more critical the positioning.

In a Mini, I simply wouldn't bother with rear full range speakers. Which is nice, as that gives you budget for the fronts and no messing with parcel shelf or rear seat boards.

My plan is Alpine SPG-13CS (http://www.alpine.co...ers375/spg-13cs) up front (tweaters on the top dash rail reflecting off the windscreen, mids in top of door in pods they are about 4cm deep) driven by the head unit which will is going to be a iDA-X305S (http://www.alpine.co...ver21/ida-x305s).

Then under the back seat, a pair of Alpine SW-1200 8" subs (http://www.alpine.co...oxes45/swe-1200).

Sorted. Had a similar system in the C2s, a Saxo, a 205GTi etc and works really well and doesn't mess up boot space with huge sub boxes.

Just a thought....

Cheers

Ian

[BishopMaverick]

I am of the opinion that rear speakers are not needed (I got carried away explaining things and didn't voice this opinion)

That said if you are not spending money on rears you could always invest in a sub... just a thought

Unless the pods are large (10ltrs
Plus) you will kill the low end excursion, and lose all the bass output.

A reputable brand (though I forget which one) informed me that 0.3 ft³ was the perfect size enclosure for a set of 6x9s I had to install for someone with a sub space problem, installing without an enclosure would have led to a shared air space... this didn't kill the bass off. Not sure if it was a compromise or not but they sounded very good in their enclosures.

BM

[Skortchio]

Definitely ditch the rear speakers and pick up a sub in replacement.
You'll not hear the sound from the rears in the front as your ears point the wrong way (if your ears point backwards disregard this) and the sub will fill the all important low end, leaving your comps to handle what they do best.
8" will fit under the rear seat and 10/12" will fit in all manner of places if you're creative.


Have a look on Ruckus' own build here:
http://www.theminifo...-son-of-ruckus/

For all your recessed fitment needs :)

[Ruckus]

A reputable brand (though I forget which one) informed me that 0.3 ft³ was the perfect size enclosure for a set of 6x9s

BM

Which is 8.5 liters, JUST about big enough IMO to allow a tight bass response.


but yes ill put another vote in for ditching the rear speakers and running a small sub in the boot or a pair under the rear seats.

[BishopMaverick]

A reputable brand (though I forget which one) informed me that 0.3 ft³ was the perfect size enclosure for a set of 6x9s

BM

Which is 8.5 liters, JUST about big enough IMO to allow a tight bass response.


but yes ill put another vote in for ditching the rear speakers and running a small sub in the boot or a pair under the rear seats.

My bad should have done the math don't remember them being that big though... I might mean 0.03ft³ I think a 0.3ft³ box would be 8"x8"x8" and the boxes I made were about the size of home bookshelf speakers.