15 replies to this topic

[Carl Johan]

Hey everyone! I'm looking into buying my first classic car (which will also be my first car). Being a bit of a classic car and speed freak ('round corners, not in a straight line). I'm thinking the mini is a perfect place to start getting into restoring and/or modding cars.

 

The issue I have is the quite strict laws of Denmark, more on these in a bit, but essentially what I want is a nice mini with some good speed in it. For this reason I would prefer to have a 1275cc engine over the 1000c or 850cc. However, Danish law states that for a car to recieve a more than 20% increase in horsepower, it must be 'technically identical' to another model, and 'supporting documents' must be there to back this up. I know that for example, the classic cooper s has different brakes than the mini 850/1000. These then would obviously need to be changed, but is there anything else that I'd need to change? Furthermore, does anyone know where I can find 'supporting documents' to make this build street-legal in Denmark? If anyone is interested, here's a shorted, translated, version of the relevant Danish law: http://pastebin.com/ttQ4xnZ5

 

 

Last but not least, if I were to attempt changing the motor of a mini 850 or 1000 to a 1275 engine, is there anything I should be aware of regarding the differences between the 850cc version and the 1000cc version (ie: which car would be easiest to use as a base)?

 

Seeing as this is my first post, I hope this made sense and is in the right place! Have a great day and thanks in advance  .

 

[MINI MAD RKH]

Hi, welcome to the forum

 

It depends on how classic you want to go, many standard cars have a 1300 & disc brakes

 

for Mk1 or 2 I think you'd need a Cooper S = mega expensive

Mk3; Cooper S or a 1275GT or 1300GT will already have a 1.3 & frt disc brakes as standard

or a later Mini Sprite based car also has a 1.3 & discs 

 

I hope this helps

Edited by MINI MAD RKH, 20 September 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Tamworthbay]

I think the MPI coopers had the highest BHP figure 'out of the box', they would be nightmare to replicate. A 1275 GT would be ok to make an equivalent of. Decent but not amazing power.

[Guess-Works.com]

why not look to buy a mini which came with a 1275 engine out of the factory... then you don't have any issues...

[jaydee]

I believe that that little quote from laws is just a frame, what they actually mean, is that you fit 'homologated' upgrades.

If you build exactly the same as, say a cooper conversion kit, you'll get a bit more than 20% power increase.

[bmcecosse]

Do they actually measure the power 'increase'...  I suspect hard to tell on a Mini what has been done to the engine  -without a strip down, or putting it on the rollers.  As others have suggested - buy a 1275 car, and modify it sensibly so it still looks 'original' under the bonnet.......  You could go to well over 100 bhp, and the only difference to be seen would be the exhaust manifold.   Would they really look for that? 

[Carl Johan]

It seems to me that the 1275GT/1300GT and all the coopers are way more expensive than buying a mini 100/850 and an engine though? (I'm speaking only of cars from atleast 35 years back, so rover mini etc is not an option). Also I do like the look of the mk1/mk2's over the clubman/GT to be honest. The cooper s also had more power than the GT's as far as i know. 

 

@bmcecosse, I don't actually know if this procedure is made, but I'd prefer to stay within the confines of the law so I don't suddenly have a situation where I can't get the car street legal :)

 

@Tamworthbay, why would the cooper s be more of a nightmare to replicate than the GT's?

 

PS: If anyone knows, I'm still quite interested in whether there's a difference between the frame/brakes/drivetrain/brakes of the mini 1000 and the mini 850 or whether it's the same car except the engine? i ask because there seems to be a bit more 850's for sale cheaper here in Denmark than the 1000, so if i'm replacing the engine anyway i could save some money?

[Ethel]

Running gear will depend more on the year, single leading shoe on early discs. All none Cooper models had the same hubs & (drum) brakes while they were making Coopers. The GT inherited the Cooper S discs, upto '76 when it got the 8.4" ones that you'll find on all Minis after '85. The highest power rated production Mini was the ERA Turbo, which was equipped with Metro vented discs. 

 

850's are very similar to 998's, in some cases it's barely more than the bits essential to give the different stroke & bore.

 

1098 Clubmans, & the 1100 special for the 1979 anniversary, had drum brakes with the most power @ 45bhp. 

 

My guess is the Mini van will have the highest rated brakes if you calculated the kinetic energy (what actually matters) with the maximum gross vehicle weight and quoted top speed.

[tiger99]

The Mini van had exactly the same brakes as the saloon, twin leading shoe at the front.

 

I would suggest a post-1984 model, so the front will have discs. The original drums are rather poor if you like driving fast. The 850 was obsolete by then, but the 998 and 1275 had identical brakes. The earlier drum brakes on the 998 were also identical to the 850.

[Ethel]

It does, but my guess is it's plated gross weight (0.95 tons) is the highest, giving it the highest performing brakes - on paper.

[MINI MAD RKH]

It seems to me that the 1275GT/1300GT and all the coopers are way more expensive than buying a mini 100/850 and an engine though? (I'm speaking only of cars from atleast 35 years back, so rover mini etc is not an option). Also I do like the look of the mk1/mk2's over the clubman/GT to be honest. The cooper s also had more power than the GT's as far as i know. 

 

 

You're not actually going to buy one of these expensive versions, you just need to get your 850/1000 to the same technical specification

 

 

So, after looking at this again with your choice of year (Mk1 - Mk2) I presume you want to run 10" wheels?  <-- it basically all comes down to this, if you want 10" wheels you can't choose any newer than the few I'll mention below...

 

So your only real options for a 1275 are Mk1, 2 & 3 Cooper S or pre 1976 1275GT

 

'technically' a 1275GT is the same as a roundnose as it still has the ability to light the road & indicate direction - their main issue appears to be that they want you to keep the handling and be able to stop

 

So we just need the full spec of one of these cars

 

15yrs ago I would have known, or known where to look for this info. but someone will know

 

we really need to know about the brakes (were any of these cars servo assisted?)

any changes in suspension?

 

When you do an engine swap into a Mk1 you will certainly have to change to the remote gearchange as well & change the stalks on the steering wheel (primarily for full beam activation) you may also need to look at seat belts

 

I think you will also have to change the speedometer/dashboard clocks

 

this is all I can think of at the moment

Edited by MINI MAD RKH, 21 September 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Ethel]

All 7.5" discs were fitted with a servo by the factory. If you're looking at earlier Minis you might make something of  what Abingdon Special Tuning offered as manufacturer approved performance upgrades, or the homologation specs of the works rally cars.

[Carl Johan]

I suppose that optimally I'd like it to look like one of the winner cars from the monte carlo rally (here's a picture of a nice-looking replica: http://i.imgur.com/rjjHzjC.jpg ) It seems that all the monte carlo winners are mk 1 cars, so I suppose that'd be that'd be the best base?

 

@minimad, these are exactly the kind of documents I'm looking for, as without those I really don't know what I'd need to change to go from mini mk 1 850/1000 to mini cooper mk1 monte carlo style Obvously there's a lot of cosmetic changes on the above picture aswell, like the fog lights, stickers, roof racks etc. These though kinda fall second priority to actually getting the car road legal :). I haven't decided on wheel type/size at all, but I suppose if the goal was to make it look like the rally winners, I'd use the same as they did then

[Tamworthbay]

It seems to me that the 1275GT/1300GT and all the coopers are way more expensive than buying a mini 100/850 and an engine though? (I'm speaking only of cars from atleast 35 years back, so rover mini etc is not an option). Also I do like the look of the mk1/mk2's over the clubman/GT to be honest. The cooper s also had more power than the GT's as far as i know. 
 
@bmcecosse, I don't actually know if this procedure is made, but I'd prefer to stay within the confines of the law so I don't suddenly have a situation where I can't get the car street legal :)
 
@Tamworthbay, why would the cooper s be more of a nightmare to replicate than the GT's?
 
PS: If anyone knows, I'm still quite interested in whether there's a difference between the frame/brakes/drivetrain/brakes of the mini 1000 and the mini 850 or whether it's the same car except the engine? i ask because there seems to be a bit more 850's for sale cheaper here in Denmark than the 1000, so if i'm replacing the engine anyway i could save some money?

The MPi cooper is jam packed full of electronics and sensors. Unless you buy an MPi, it would cost an arma and a leg to get all the bits and getting them working together would be hard work. By comparison a 1275gt is a clubman with a 1275 engine, nice and simple.

[Carl Johan]

by "technically identical" ("teknisk identisk") I think they're mostly refering to the mechanical aspect, ie drivetrain, suspension, brakes etc. I don't think a difference in electronics will pose a problem, but then again I could be wrong.