118 replies to this topic

[the_r_sole]

so using those snips of reviews are you saying that the classic mini isn't similar to the modern mini?! seems to me they are almost identical in practicality...

the problem you are having is that you are judging the new mini against a classic piece of design (the classic mini) but not taking into account any of the considerations of the requirements of a modern car - then comparing an even more modern car design (the UP!) against the MINI which set the standard for this type of car - it's almost like you are blinded to what bmw did with the MINI because you don't think it's deserving of the name, but in reality if it wasn't as successful as it was, none of these cars you are saying are more like a mini would exist...

[campaj1]

so using those snips of reviews are you saying that the classic mini isn't similar to the modern mini?! seems to me they are almost identical in practicality...

the problem you are having is that you are judging the new mini against a classic piece of design (the classic mini) but not taking into account any of the considerations of the requirements of a modern car - then comparing an even more modern car design (the UP!) against the MINI which set the standard for this type of car - it's almost like you are blinded to what bmw did with the MINI because you don't think it's deserving of the name, but in reality if it wasn't as successful as it was, none of these cars you are saying are more like a mini would exist...

 

Not at all. I'm saying the classic MIni, while not exactly spacious, was a revelation FOR ITS TIME in terms of packaging. Of course, there was room for improvement (hatchback), but it was certainly class leading at least to begin with. This is the very point of me mentioning the up!, which I'm now as sick of talking about as you presumably are of hearing about! It's just to show that a small, practical car is still a feasibility in the modern context. So actually I am taking into consideration the requirements of a modern car. It's only with awareness of these requirements that we can envisage a different kind of modern Mini. As I have said, I can appreciate the R50/3 MINIs (and It sounds as if this is where wires are being crossed) as zeitgeist cars that worked well as a fashion statement. It was undoubtedly a clever piece of marketing, just not necessarily one of engineering. It's the next two generations that get my goat, as it's almost as if the new MINI has become a one trick pony: we'll do our oddball retro thing while the competition just focuses on building truly practical, enjoyable small cars. The R50/3 IS deserving of the name granted to it. I must disagree with you re: "if it wasn't as successful as it was, none of these cars you are saying are more like a mini would exist", mainstream small cars have been going from strength to strength for years? 

[mab01uk]

As BMW explained to ROVER marketing when they first took over and told them they did not realise the jewel that they had in the Mini. It is the kind of car that gives a gut feeling. 'I Want That Car' and thats the big difference between a VW Polo (or an UP) and a MINI.

 

The VW UP is just like the current VW Polo advert you could almost casually pick one of the shelf while you are out shopping, there is no emotion or desire to own it other than as an efficient form of transport......

ie. Its just boring.

 

 

 

and for the VW UP....

Edited by mab01uk, 26 November 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[campaj1]

^^ You see, I find the up! exciting and refreshing (apart from that bleeding cynical exclamation mark which is just too try hard on a german car lol). MINI as a brand is very powerful. But it could be even more so with a car that does the usual small car packaging thing better, and that is also closer to the essence of the original Mini concept. Also, some of the kitsch details on the current raft of MINIs are just embarrassing, like the 'Openometer'; it's a bit like watching your dad dress up for a wild fancy dress party!

Edited by campaj1, 25 November 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[HarrysMini]

Exactly, can you honestly and truthfully say that day to day you would rather drive an Up than a MINI?

 

It might be better packaged but who cares?! Use the back seat for your shopping!!

You don't buy a Mini if you want a practical car. Surely everyone on here can understand that?

[campaj1]

The original Mini was certainly a brilliant piece of packaging. But that was not all there was to it. It was John Cooper who started tampering with it and removing the practicality like putting in a remote gear shift. Issigonis was a bit reluctant at first but very soon realised where it could go. The Mini was a great success because it was cool, it was fun, it handled brilliantly and it was very attractive. It was too small to be all that practical, which is probably why it did not sell well at the beginning. Rover/BMW have definitely captured the spirit. The VW UP looks very boring in comparison. VW transformed their fortunes when they hired Giugiaro to design the original Golf Mk 1. Fiat hired the MINI designer, Frank Stephenson, to design the 500. Both have sold very well. You can never underestimate the importance of how a car looks.

Sure, the original wasn't purely known for its packaging. It is what made it great initially though, the motorsport pedigree and 'hip' image came along later. I would argue that it was highly practical for its size, and gave enough room for four for not much cash. I think they captured the spirit in R50, but it has long since died. Yes, styling is important (I happen to think the up is a smart bit of design anyway), but IMO the latest model MINI's styling is probably its most contrived feature? I agree, but it doesn't look that good!

 

 

Exactly, can you honestly and truthfully say that day to day you would rather drive an Up than a MINI?

 

It might be better packaged but who cares?! Use the back seat for your shopping!!

You don't buy a Mini if you want a practical car. Surely everyone on here can understand that?

I'd genuinely prefer the VW!

Driving a proper Mini is worth the many inconveniences as it looks so cool and provides a genuinely entertaining driving experience. 

I'm not actually sure you can call a MINI cool anymore... hardly the car of rock stars and trendsetters is it?

The high prices also ensure that the whole idea of the MINI being a carefree affordable first car is out of reach of most young drivers too, which doesn't help IMO.

[mab01uk]

 

 

 

I'd genuinely prefer the VW!

Driving a proper Mini is worth the many inconveniences as it looks so cool and provides a genuinely entertaining driving experience. 

I'm not actually sure you can call a MINI cool anymore... hardly the car of rock stars and trendsetters is it?

The high prices also ensure that the whole idea of the MINI being a carefree affordable first car is out of reach of most young drivers too, which doesn't help IMO.

 

 

Driving a 'proper' Mini may look cool but not enough buyers outside of Japan were willing to accept the many inconveniences in later years, which is why sales dropped off from 1971 onwards and why it had to be replaced in 2001......even Alec Issigonis knew this and had lined up the 9X as a replacement in 1968.

What do you mean.........several rock stars, F1 drivers plus Simon Cowell, Sharon Osborne, Madonna  and more own or have owned MINI's.......

Well i could never afford a brand new classic Mini anyway, always had secondhand and you can now pick up a completely rust free early New MINI from about £1500 or less and the MINI ONE is both affordable and very popular as a first car and learners car.

Edited by mab01uk, 26 November 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[campaj1]

 

 

 

 

I'd genuinely prefer the VW!

Driving a proper Mini is worth the many inconveniences as it looks so cool and provides a genuinely entertaining driving experience. 

I'm not actually sure you can call a MINI cool anymore... hardly the car of rock stars and trendsetters is it?

The high prices also ensure that the whole idea of the MINI being a carefree affordable first car is out of reach of most young drivers too, which doesn't help IMO.

 

 

Driving a 'proper' Mini may look cool but not enough buyers outside of Japan were willing to accept the many inconveniences in later years, which is why sales dropped off from 1971 onwards and why it had to be replaced in 2001......even Alec Issigonis knew this and had lined up the 9X as a replacement in 1968.

What do you mean.........several rock stars, F1 drivers plus Simon Cowell, Sharon Osborne, Madonna  and more own or have owned MINI's.......

Well i could never afford a brand new classic Mini anyway, always had secondhand and you can now pick up a completely rust free early New MINI from about £1500 or less and the MINI ONE is both affordable and very popular as a first car and learners car.

 

Yes, it became more of a niche car by the end. Had 9X gone ahead the modern Mini would probably have been a very different car...

Owned is the key word there... barely any in R56... probably even fewer will take up the new model.

Yeah... a great first car until the power steering gives up the ghost... 

[mab01uk]

 

Yes, it became more of a niche car by the end. Had 9X gone ahead the modern Mini would probably have been a very different car...

Owned is the key word there... barely any in R56... probably even fewer will take up the new model.

Yeah... a great first car until the power steering gives up the ghost... 

 

 

Yes the 9X would have made the classic Mini a rare car today if you take away everything Mk3 onwards made after 1968/9.....but maybe it would have helped BL maintain their market share for small cars longer?

There is a list of celebrity MINI owners past and present somewhere.....if I can find it will post!

Power steering on my 2002 MINI is still fine so far, I love the characteristic whining sound as do many other MINI enthusiasts, I have replaced a few PS pumps (as originally designed by Rover!) for others on the Mk1's, but recon pumps are only £150 from BBA-Reman and take about an hour to fit as an easy diy job. The R56 onwards is fully electric steering, pretty good but does not have quite the same direct 'Mini' feel as the R50/53 with the Electro-Hydraulic ps pump which Rover insisted on for 'feel' during R50 development as fully electric was in its early days and felt too artificial back then.

Edited by mab01uk, 26 November 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[jamesmpi]

The days of electro hydraulic power steering seem to be numbered. Even the likes of Porsche have now adopted fully electric systems. I persume due to cost and design packaging. Plus you can create variable steering for inner city and rural driving conditions. Shame really as it widely acknowledged that hydraulic steering gives more feel etc

Edited by jamesmpi, 26 November 2013 - 07:26 PM.

[Cooperman]

I for one fail to see how a 55 year old design can be compared in any way to a modern hatch-back.

All BMW did was buy the name, and wow, did they ever pay for that!

Now, the BINI is a fine car. It's well engineered, drives beautifully, has super road-holding and acceptable handling. But a classic Mini it isn't - of course it isn't and it isn't 55 years old in design terms. BMW have recouped their investment & good luck to them.

I believe Ford are considering a new Capri. It won't be anything like the earlier Capris, but it will probably be a great car.

Modern cars are what are needed for day to day driving. I was pondering this only today whilst driving up the M11 in my BMW 730d at 90 mph at 2100 rpm at 35 mpg in comfort with a Mozart CD playing.

[Chance]

I bet in a BMW 7series it's like sitting in your front room lol

I don't think people are driving in MINIs pretending they are driving around in the classic mini as people seem to imply
Just driving a a car that looks different to most small hatchbacks and enjoying them the same way we do the classics

I personally like the R50/53 but not so much the others
Maybe that will change when those designs get old

I think my brain is only programmed to like old stuff :/

[HarrysMini]

Most people who own a MINI don't try and pretend it's a classic, after all, it's a completely different car really.

The whole idea of the MINI is to be a fun to drive hatchback that has the styling of a Mini and some of the driving characteristics of the Mini.

It would be better compared with the likes of the Golf GTI and other hot hatches.
And I honestly don't think you would be able to get anything better for the money. You definitely can't get a Golf GTI for the same money as an R53 Cooper S (around £4500 for a decent one)