180 replies to this topic

[mini-geek]

I don't see how it's size compared to its rivals (that aren't it's rivals as it has non) matters about waving at them or if it's anything to do with the classic

The fact is it shares non of its design principals as the original!

They are two different cars with two different scenes they just happen to occupy the same space.. The only overlap is forced and engendered by BMW

Edited by mini-geek, 04 April 2014 - 05:20 PM.

[creakyjaws5533]

It's only because the MINI is the only true Mk2 Mini. It took a huge leap rather than gradually progressed like the Golf. Imagine if the Golf had gone from the Mk1 to the Mk5, everyone would be whining about as they are the MINI (Oh it's not a proper Mini, what a disgrace etcetera etcetera..)
 
And whoever says it is big needs to actually go and see one in person/drive one, because it is smaller than all of it's main rivals even if it is bigger than its 1959 predecessor.

I am somewhat surprised by this comment. They are HUGE on the outside, it's only the inside that is small. It could be argued that they are the exact opposite of the original concept - small outside, big inside. They seem to be aimed at the middle aged lady market (certainly judging by our car park at work they are being successful), other options would be fiesta size (as compared to by yourself) and they are all smaller than the new mini. But all of this is irrelevant to the original question. Surely we are all free to wave or not at whoever we so choose (subject to relevant restraining orders etc ).

The F56, the largest MINI, is smaller than it's main rivals such as the Audi A1, Ford Fiesta, Citroen DS3, Golf, Audi A3...

The largest BINI being thw countryman is quite a bit bigger than all of those cars http://e84.xbimmers....ad.php?t=423908

[HarrysMini]

 

 

 

It's only because the MINI is the only true Mk2 Mini. It took a huge leap rather than gradually progressed like the Golf. Imagine if the Golf had gone from the Mk1 to the Mk5, everyone would be whining about as they are the MINI (Oh it's not a proper Mini, what a disgrace etcetera etcetera..)
 
And whoever says it is big needs to actually go and see one in person/drive one, because it is smaller than all of it's main rivals even if it is bigger than its 1959 predecessor.

I am somewhat surprised by this comment. They are HUGE on the outside, it's only the inside that is small. It could be argued that they are the exact opposite of the original concept - small outside, big inside. They seem to be aimed at the middle aged lady market (certainly judging by our car park at work they are being successful), other options would be fiesta size (as compared to by yourself) and they are all smaller than the new mini. But all of this is irrelevant to the original question. Surely we are all free to wave or not at whoever we so choose (subject to relevant restraining orders etc ).

The F56, the largest MINI, is smaller than it's main rivals such as the Audi A1, Ford Fiesta, Citroen DS3, Golf, Audi A3...

The largest BINI being thw countryman is quite a bit bigger than all of those cars http://e84.xbimmers....ad.php?t=423908

 

Obviously I'm talking about standard hatchbacks.

 

I don't see how it's size compared to its rivals (that aren't it's rivals as it has non) matters about waving at them or if it's anything to do with the classic

The fact is it shares non of its design principals as the original!

They are two different cars with two different scenes they just happen to occupy the same space.. The only overlap is forced and engendered by BMW

But that isn't a fact. It shares many of the original's design principles, the main one being the transverse mounted engine driving the front wheels.

 

Learn your facts first before you start slagging other cars off.

[mini-geek]

That is not a design principle.. That's just copying almost every small car that has been made since the mini! Anyway the mini had it's gearbox under the engine so it's hardly even related in that sense!

And how many times I'm not slagging a it off they are a good car look great handle well but it's not the same car....

Ps using the bold text makes it look like you're shouting..

[HarrysMini]

That is not a design principle.. That's just copying almost every small car that has been made since the mini! Anyway the mini had it's gearbox under the engine so it's hardly even related in that sense!

And how many times I'm not slagging a it off they are a good car look great handle well but it's not the same car....

Ps using the bold text makes it look like you're shouting..

Of course it is a design principle, what would you call it then? And we're talking about engines, not gearboxes. 

[CityEPete]

Im sure lots of us are happy tinkering and adjusting timing and valve clearances but many of the people who had a mini before some of the haters here were born dont want to and like it or not those people are now choosing a bini as a slightly quirky yet well built modern alternative. The painter at work is in his 60s, hes been there and done that yet his bini cooper s makes him happy like his old minis once did. Youd be amazed what some of these so called old folk get up to too, donnington historic saloon racing this weekend will have a paddock full of binis, some towing full fat race car minis driven by 80 year olds!

[CityEPete]

How is this still going on?
 
People have said that there are no parts in common between the classic mini and the MINI....correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is not a single part from the first produced mini that will fit on the last produced Mini, even though they may look the same.
 
For anyone who says a MINI is not a Mini, it doesn't matter what you 'think'. Its a fact. Mini is a marque that was owned by Rover and bought by BMW. They continued the marque and therefore it will always be a Mini. BMW denote the difference by calling it a MINI, but it is the same family of car. Many people have pointed out that Golfs, Fiestas, Polos and the like are all hugely different and much bigger cars than when they first came out. But that is the same for every car around...look at the size of a 3 or 5 Series BMW...
 
I can understand why people do not flash a MINI unless they flash first, I completely agree. But anyone who wouldn't flash a MINI after they flash you, is in my humble opinion, childish. You could be forgiven for thinking the Mini scene is in decline with snobbish and ridiculous attitudes like some displayed here.
 
I do agree that many people see cars these days as a means to an ends, and go for MINIs because they are a bit different and quirky compared to normal Euro boxes. However, I also believe there are many may people who choose a MINI because of its history. Back in the 70s and 80s, people bought a Mini just because it was another car. MINI is no different.

I'm just quoting this so that people read it again. This is all that needs to be said on the subject.
Well said.

except that it is wrong, for example there are a lot of parts that fit between the first and last minis. The other major issue there is that there was a constant progression, such as can be traced from the first to last escort where each incarnation builds on the last. This was clearly not the case with the mini. It was a profile copy and nothing more. What I am also saddened by is the slating of people for not waving - when did making a choice become a crime? So because someone else feels attracted to my car in some way even though I don't know them and therefore do not respond I am 'childish'?That is a very strange view of the world to me. The new mini is purely a marketing exercise, plain and simple. And why should it be more? BMW make cars, that's what they do. Makers use whatever tricks they can to sell cars, if people want to buy into that fair enough, but how that translates into me HAVING to respond I am unsure.

Im not sure anyone said you HAVE to wave?

All companies make things for a profit and the marketing dept are there to help do that, bmc were no different nor were Rover, the difference is one went bust because the products were poorly built and outdated not to mention head gasket trouble prone, BMW on the other hand cant build the cars quick enough even though many owners are on there 3rd or 4th product, MINI have also produced cars to meet the needs of customers who have outgrown their hatch but love the cars and customer service and really dont want a citroen or ford etc.

Edited by CityEPete, 04 April 2014 - 06:28 PM.

[Tamworthbay]

How is this still going on?
 
People have said that there are no parts in common between the classic mini and the MINI....correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is not a single part from the first produced mini that will fit on the last produced Mini, even though they may look the same.
 
For anyone who says a MINI is not a Mini, it doesn't matter what you 'think'. Its a fact. Mini is a marque that was owned by Rover and bought by BMW. They continued the marque and therefore it will always be a Mini. BMW denote the difference by calling it a MINI, but it is the same family of car. Many people have pointed out that Golfs, Fiestas, Polos and the like are all hugely different and much bigger cars than when they first came out. But that is the same for every car around...look at the size of a 3 or 5 Series BMW...
 
I can understand why people do not flash a MINI unless they flash first, I completely agree. But anyone who wouldn't flash a MINI after they flash you, is in my humble opinion, childish. You could be forgiven for thinking the Mini scene is in decline with snobbish and ridiculous attitudes like some displayed here.
 
I do agree that many people see cars these days as a means to an ends, and go for MINIs because they are a bit different and quirky compared to normal Euro boxes. However, I also believe there are many may people who choose a MINI because of its history. Back in the 70s and 80s, people bought a Mini just because it was another car. MINI is no different.

I'm just quoting this so that people read it again. This is all that needs to be said on the subject.
Well said.

except that it is wrong, for example there are a lot of parts that fit between the first and last minis. The other major issue there is that there was a constant progression, such as can be traced from the first to last escort where each incarnation builds on the last. This was clearly not the case with the mini. It was a profile copy and nothing more. What I am also saddened by is the slating of people for not waving - when did making a choice become a crime? So because someone else feels attracted to my car in some way even though I don't know them and therefore do not respond I am 'childish'?That is a very strange view of the world to me. The new mini is purely a marketing exercise, plain and simple. And why should it be more? BMW make cars, that's what they do. Makers use whatever tricks they can to sell cars, if people want to buy into that fair enough, but how that translates into me HAVING to respond I am unsure.

Im not sure anyone said you HAVE to wave?
All companies make things for a profit and the marketing dept are there to help do that, bmc were no different nor were Rover, the difference is one went bust because the products were poorly built and outdated not to mention head gasket trouble prone, BMW on the other hand cant build the cars quick enough even though many owners are on there 3rd or 4th product, MINI have also produced cars to meet the needs of customers who have outgrown their hatch but love the cars and customer service and really dont want a citroen or ford etc.

I do wish people would read ALL the posts it would make life easier. The comment is within the quote you quoted:

But anyone who wouldn't flash a MINI after they flash you, is in my humble opinion, childish.

[mab01uk]

 

 

 

It's only because the MINI is the only true Mk2 Mini. It took a huge leap rather than gradually progressed like the Golf. Imagine if the Golf had gone from the Mk1 to the Mk5, everyone would be whining about as they are the MINI (Oh it's not a proper Mini, what a disgrace etcetera etcetera..)
 
And whoever says it is big needs to actually go and see one in person/drive one, because it is smaller than all of it's main rivals even if it is bigger than its 1959 predecessor.

I am somewhat surprised by this comment. They are HUGE on the outside, it's only the inside that is small. It could be argued that they are the exact opposite of the original concept - small outside, big inside. They seem to be aimed at the middle aged lady market (certainly judging by our car park at work they are being successful), other options would be fiesta size (as compared to by yourself) and they are all smaller than the new mini. But all of this is irrelevant to the original question. Surely we are all free to wave or not at whoever we so choose (subject to relevant restraining orders etc ).

The F56, the largest MINI, is smaller than it's main rivals such as the Audi A1, Ford Fiesta, Citroen DS3, Golf, Audi A3...

The largest BINI being thw countryman is quite a bit bigger than all of those cars http://e84.xbimmers....ad.php?t=423908

 

 

All small cars have grown over the years and to be fair should only be compared with competitors from the same era or years:

 

The MINI is in the modern 'SuperMini' hatch class of car but it is still smaller than its supermini competitors from the same years, ie. Fiesta, Corsa, Yaris, Micra, Clio, etc

Overall Length:
MINI R50/53 (Mk1 2001-06) = 3626 mm
Fiesta (2002-08) = 3918 mm
Corsa (2003-06) = 3839 mm
Yaris (1999-05) = 3640 mm
Clio (2001-08) = 3812 mm

(The Mk2 (R56) & Mk3 (F56) MINI hatches have more front bumper overhang to meet ever more stringent front pedestrian impact safety rules but so also have all the competitors later models - look at the side view of the extended front bumper on most recently launched new cars)

 

The 2014 F56 Mk3 MINI is still one of the smallest supermini hatchbacks compared to current day competitors:

3821mm length, 1727mm width, 1414mm height

 

Audi A1
Length: 3,954 mm (155.7 in)
Width: 1,740 mm (68.5 in)
Height: 1,416 mm (55.7 in)

Ford Fiesta
Length: 3950mm
Width: 1722mm
Height: 1473mm

VW Polo
Length: 3,970 mm (156.3 in)
Width: 1,682 mm (66.2 in)
Height: 1,453 mm (57.2 in)

Vauxhall Corsa
Length: 3,999 mm (157.4 in)
Width: 1,737 mm (68.4 in)
Height: 1,488 mm (58.6 in)

Fiat Punto
Length: 4,065 mm (160.0 in)
Width: 1,687 mm (66.4 in)
Height: 1,490 mm (58.7 in)

 

 

Edited by mab01uk, 04 April 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[Tamworthbay]

It's only because the MINI is the only true Mk2 Mini. It took a huge leap rather than gradually progressed like the Golf. Imagine if the Golf had gone from the Mk1 to the Mk5, everyone would be whining about as they are the MINI (Oh it's not a proper Mini, what a disgrace etcetera etcetera..)
 
And whoever says it is big needs to actually go and see one in person/drive one, because it is smaller than all of it's main rivals even if it is bigger than its 1959 predecessor.

I am somewhat surprised by this comment. They are HUGE on the outside, it's only the inside that is small. It could be argued that they are the exact opposite of the original concept - small outside, big inside. They seem to be aimed at the middle aged lady market (certainly judging by our car park at work they are being successful), other options would be fiesta size (as compared to by yourself) and they are all smaller than the new mini. But all of this is irrelevant to the original question. Surely we are all free to wave or not at whoever we so choose (subject to relevant restraining orders etc ).

The F56, the largest MINI, is smaller than it's main rivals such as the Audi A1, Ford Fiesta, Citroen DS3, Golf, Audi A3...

The largest BINI being thw countryman is quite a bit bigger than all of those cars http://e84.xbimmers....ad.php?t=423908

 
All small cars have grown over the years and to be fair should only be compared with competitors from the same era or years:
 
The MINI is in the modern 'SuperMini' hatch class of car but it is still smaller than its supermini competitors from the same years, ie. Fiesta, Corsa, Yaris, Micra, Clio, etc
Overall Length:MINI R50/53 (Mk1 2001-06) = 3626 mm
Fiesta (2002-08) = 3918 mm
Corsa (2003-06) = 3839 mm
Yaris (1999-05) = 3640 mm
Clio (2001-08) = 3812 mm
(The Mk2 (R56) & Mk3 (F56) MINI hatches have more front bumper overhang to meet ever more stringent front pedestrian impact safety rules but so also have all the competitors later models - look at the side view of the extended front bumper on most recently launched new cars)

but if we are quoting numbers then you shouldn't be listing those cars. Look at a mini v fiesta:
https://autos.yahoo....ifications.html

http://www.ford.com/...ons/capacities/

You can see that mini has half the luggage capacity of the fiesta. So in terms of comparable size (and let's face it interior space is critical and the only real measure of size). The mini is by far the largest car in its class and as you have shown only a tiny amount smaller than cars that double its capacity. Big outside, small inside - the exact opposite of the original design brief. Perhaps BMW should have used Maxi as the brand instead.

[Black.Ghost]

I would just like to clarify a couple of points. Firstly, when I said not waving to someone in a MINI who flashes or waves at you first was childish, I meant if the reason for you not doing so is because they are in a MINI. There are many people who own and drive both, and a simple appreciation of a classic mini, in my humble opinion, should be acknowledged.

 

Second of all, could someone please clarify what parts from the original mini would fit or could still have been used on the last one? I was under the impression that over the years, the changes had been made meaning nothing was the same. 

 

The MINI is a Mini being fact can't really be argued. BMW bought the marque and now produce the car. Whether people like or not is irrelevant in that really.

 

It's not a case of if I disagree with it it's childish, but there are, in my opinion, many things that adults do that are rather childish.

[Tamworthbay]

I would just like to clarify a couple of points. Firstly, when I said not waving to someone in a MINI who flashes or waves at you first was childish, I meant if the reason for you not doing so is because they are in a MINI. There are many people who own and drive both, and a simple appreciation of a classic mini, in my humble opinion, should be acknowledged.
 
Second of all, could someone please clarify what parts from the original mini would fit or could still have been used on the last one? I was under the impression that over the years, the changes had been made meaning nothing was the same. 
 
The MINI is a Mini being fact can't really be argued. BMW bought the marque and now produce the car. Whether people like or not is irrelevant in that really.
 
It's not a case of if I disagree with it it's childish, but there are, in my opinion, many things that adults do that are rather childish.

for the bits that fit, numerous engine and gearbox parts, some brakes parts will fit (obviously you would need to check suitability for use), suspension parts, there are panels that are 'close enough' that they can be used, some interior parts. There may well be other bits but I am far from a mk1 expert.

[CityEPete]

Parts that will fit because the fixing point dimensions did not change is not the same as "parts shared between models" though, sure a full set of leather from a sportspack will fit perfectly but only because BL could not afford to update the car every 7 years like other manufacturers. You could put an 850 A series in an MPI fairly easy and I presume a 1275 SPI would not be the biggest job to put in a Riley elf but neither would win you any concourse points, Lol.

 

Edit to say after typing that I want a Rileyt Elf with a 1275 lump ,Ha

Edited by CityEPete, 04 April 2014 - 09:20 PM.

[sixtyeight]

 

It's a car, just get over it and move on with your life.

 

Thats the thing - the MINI is just another car. The Mini however, is an icon, and deserves the appreciation it gets.

 

Now, I went through a BINI phase when they first came out - had had enough of minis - too rough, noisy, breaky, smelly.. so bought a MINI. I wanted to wave to Minis. but it just didn't feel right. and not once did I get a wave from another MINI owner. Most MINI owners aren't that type who care about the heritage and camaraderie that comes with owning a classic car. They car about how they look cruising down the high street! When I realised that, I sold it. and bought another Mini.

[CityEPete]

Which brings us back to the elitism of only Mk 1 and 2 cars being proper minis in some eyes, after that they were nothing but a rip off sharing the basic shape and being sold just to make money by clever marketing people by selling special editions, park lane, mini special 1100, clubman fronts, sportspacks, Se7ens with the old style balmoral cloth etc etc the only difference between the mini situation and other cars with a cult following is that the mini was rung out like a wet cloth rather than constantly updated, who knows where it would be now but I am 100% certain the new Mini would be nearer to a Bini than a classic mini.

Edited by CityEPete, 05 April 2014 - 07:58 AM.