39 replies to this topic

[Swift_General]

https://www.gov.uk/v...ltered-vehicles

The rules are quite clear. A re shelled car (unless new from the manufacturer) will never be able to retain the original VRM.

[Shifty]

Yup, out of say 100,000 'rehells' there is a chance that one or 2 are legit...

 

Almost all the time they are at least vaguely uncertain to downright fraudulent.  In all my years I've only ever owned one rehelled car that was actually legit.  That was a 1966 that had been shelled into a brand new rover shell.  Even that was a triggers broom though and in real terms was a triggers broom.

 

Nowadays I say well clear of them, it kills the value and can make a car unsaleable.

[fenghuang]

What defines a re-shell anyway? (And this is a serious question!)

 

Any panel can be bought seperately, and welded in to replace a rusty, structurally usound one. Legal.
You can replace a panel with the chassis number on it, and put the chassis number back on. I think that's legal, isn't?

You can replace 5 rusty panels one year and it's the same car. Then another 5 rusty panels the next year and it's still the same car. And eventually there's none of the original shell left. I don't think there's anything strictly illegal there either, is there?

 

So when does replacing panels become reshelling.

 

A similar issue, but the other way round: You have car with a valid V5, replace the rusty panels with new ones, bin all the mechanicals except the engine block, so the chassis number and engine number match the V5. Then you replace eveything else from a donor car which you scrap, isn't that effectively the same as reshelling?

[Ben_O]

It is all a bit of a minefield.

 

the term re-shelling is to transplant the parts from one complete car into another cars bodyshell. 

The bit you said about replacing panels would still be classed as repairs as it is very unlikely that you would repair a shell without retaining any of the original shell. If panels were replaced over the years, it would still be classed as repairs.

 

I expect the last part you mentioned would be classed as rebuilding with used parts. As far as i am aware, it is not illegal to repair a car with used parts.

 

I know there is a points system in place which you have to meet a certain amount of points to stay legal but i don't know much about it as i would never be interested in getting involved with the whole thing. Ill stick to my legit mini thankyou.

 

In reality, people will do things like that all the time and either not realise that it could potentially be illegal or just do so on the quiet and nobody will ever know anyway.

[Shawbags]

If it's had a new shell, you should have a receipt (or a Heritage certificate).
If it's had a second hand shell, then no, because it's not something that should have been done.

 
Not that simple at all and it might be a perfectly legit car. Re-shelling a car with a second hand (previously registered) shell is NOT in and of itself illegal. It all comes down to which parts were used from which original car whether one of the original identities can be used or whether it will need to go through re-registration.
 
Also bear in mind that "second-hand" doesn't necessarily mean the replacement shell has ever been registered. I re-shelled a Mini using a Rover shell that had been used as a race-car for some time but never road registered - the shell was considered "new" for registration purposes and the original identity was retained. I'll be doing something very similar with a Focus shell in the hopefully not to distant future but that will involve IVA as the shell has been modified and it's not getting Focus running gear attached. The shell was bought from Ford and modified as a spare for a rally car but never used and the team changed car so this was surplus to requirements and sold.
 
The technical forums have a warning that you shouldn't give advice unless you know what you are talking about - maybe as a member of the "TMF-Team" Matt should have known to apply the same rules before posting such a simplistic and possibly plain wrong answer.
 
We need more info than the OP has provided before we can make any call on whether this car is iffy or not. It might well be dodgy and I'll happily concede that many are but if the seller has been up-front enough to say it's been re-shelled without prompting (which it sounds like) then the indications so far are nudging it in the direction of maybe being "right".
 
Iain

The trouble is , these days it is so easy to sell on a stolen vehicle and the best way to do it is to state things like , it's been re-shelled ect , loads of vehicles on ebay are sold and are obviously dodgy yet ebay will do nothing about it , the car is on ebay at the moment and another one has just come up stating it also has been re-shelled , I would have thought that the DVLA would have made it possible to prove the car is legit in some way but yet again the car could have been re-shelled years ago when the DVLA were less bothered , it's a bit of a gray spot I suppose , I myself owned a re-shelled Mini years ago and the thought of it being dodgy never crossed my mind , Shawbags ( Chris ) .

[Ben_O]

I think on eBay, some sellers seem to think that advertising it as having been re-shelled is a good thing as it assures the buyer that it is a good car because it would presumably have been transferred into a good solid shell.

Either that or they simply don't see it as anything dodgy and want to be honest about it.

I'm sure most re-shells would be sold with no such 'honest advertising' and the seller would simply say nothing about it.

 

as i said before, personally i would not buy a Mini that had been re-shelled, not even if it was an 'honest' re-shell.

 

Ben

[fenghuang]

Where do use of BMH Heritage shells fit into all this?

[Guess-Works.com]

BHM Heritage shells are the ONLY shells which may be used for a legitimate reshell, unless you have a NOS Rover/BL/BMC shell kicking about with supporting documentation of that fact.

 

Back in the day, a shell was just another part which could be order from your parts supplier...

 

If you replace the shell on with anything else, then technically you do not have enough of the original car ( by the points scheme ) to retain the original registration. So you either take the registration of the vehicle from which the replacement shell was taken ( basically rebuilding that mini ) or it needs to be tested as a rebuilt vehicle or vehicle made from parts of more than one vehicle and should have a "Q" plate.

[ibrooks]

So as I said in my very first post in this thread we need more information.

 

From the info given at that point the car might have gone through SVA or if it's more recent IVA. Yes OK you would expect that to be specified but at least ask the question. It might be on the original registration of the shell rather than the donor vehicle (and have kept enough components to make the points up). We don't know so without asking further questions the initial knee-jerk reactions of "it's dodgy" or "it's illegal" were quite possibly wrong. Quite likely right but lets not jump to conclusions without good reason.

 

Shifty - you had a legitimate one, I did too. Have we really seen as many as 100,000? maybe a few hundred so we're down to single digit percentages that are "right" but I think your ratio is a bit off.

 

Iain

Edited by ibrooks, 27 February 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[nicklouse]

Is it a:

 

"1966 Austin Mini Cooper Mk1

 

THE CAR HAS BEEN RE-SHELLED IN THE EARLY 80'S

 as we are talking about something that has already happened and we presume that it has been back on the road since the 80s it is all done and dusted. nothing legal or not to be discussed. it has been done.

 

the onlx thing you will have to look for is what year the shell is. back in the day (as mentioned) a shell was just a part. the number of early minis that dont have their original bodies in the 70-80 would suprise many.

 

in this case i would guess the shell is not an early one but an 80s one.

 

but we have no means of knowing.

[Guess-Works.com]

The give away will be any VIN marks or stamped numbers on the shell, as those supplied as 'parts' didn't have any...

Edited by Guess-Works.com, 27 February 2015 - 10:45 AM.

[Shawbags]

I have asked if the seller has any proof and I have had no reply .

[fenghuang]

BHM Heritage shells are the ONLY shells which may be used for a legitimate reshell

Have the DVLA given BMH some sort of special dispensation? What makes their shells legally different?

[Swift_General]

BHM Heritage shells are the ONLY shells which may be used for a legitimate reshell

Have the DVLA given BMH some sort of special dispensation? What makes their shells legally different?

No but I don't know of anyone else that manufactures brand new shells.

Edited by Swift_General, 27 February 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Guess-Works.com]

No, but BMW have...

 

To quote the DVLA...

 

Keep a vehicle’s original registration number

A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

• the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
• a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)