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Sidelights

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#16 WiredbyWilson

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 01:01 PM

Feel ill....................



#17 CityEPete

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:56 AM

Looking in my Haynes manual the front sides are just connected on the same circuit as the rears, red/green to the rears and red only to the front splitting from a shared Lucas joint.

 

Later cars with fuel injection (possibly cars like my late 1995 carb SPI shell Mayfair) have a left and right circuit with the right being on a line fuse rather than in the 4  way fuse box but even then they are both fed from the click one on the light switch so you would lose both if (when!) the switch fails, I still so no sign of the front sides being wired via the dip dim relay at all?

Some crossed wires here IMO (pun intended), maybe we are talking about something different?

 

 

 

To the OP where are you with this so far, my brain wants to crack it, Lol.


Edited by CityEPete, 05 June 2015 - 04:58 PM.


#18 Jaam-Design

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 09:16 PM

Terminals 7-8 on the fusebox only deal with rear lights (and possibly dash), the lighting circuit itself is permanently live and the front sidelights work independently of the rear.

 

What should happen is the first click of the switch activates sidelights only with ignition off. With ignition on the relay should click and illuminate dipped beam.

Somewhere along the line the switch is working the wrong way round - have you pulled the switch? Yes that relay is standard so leave it in there.

On the back of the switch there are three wires:

Red - sidleight power

Blue - headlight power

Brown - Permanent live into the switch.

 

You need to check which becomes live at what stage and where.

 

I would recommend doing the following with the ignition off.

  1. Pop the switch out and check you have permanent live on the brown wire.
  2. Then check the red becomes live on first click of switch
  3. Then check the blue becomes live on second click of switch

If the above is all as it should be repeat the tests at the front panel bullet connectors:

  1. Red is live on first click
  2. Blue/Red is live on second click (dipped beam)
  3. Blue/White is live on main beam

The results of the second test will determine if the dip/dim relay as gone wrong.

 

Report back and we can try again :)

 

What should happen is the first click of the switch activates sidelights only with ignition off.        THIS IS THE STAGE IT IS NOT DOING.....

 

With ignition on the relay should click and illuminate dipped beam. WITH SWITCH ON FIRST CLICK, TURN IGNITION ON AND SIDELIGHTS ONLY COME ON

 

SWITCH SWITCH TO SECOND CLICK WITH IGNITION ON OR OFF AND DIP LIGHTS ON.

 

Somewhere along the line the switch is working the wrong way round - have you pulled the switch?   NO I HAVEN'T...... 

 

Yes that relay is standard so leave it in there. OK THANKS.....

 

On the back of the switch there are three wires:

 

Red - sidleight power

Blue - headlight power

Brown - Permanent live into the switch.

 

WILL CHECK FEEDS AND REPORT BACK IN THE MORNING....... I HAVE A BULB, SOME WIRE AND A SOLID EARTH. 



#19 CityEPete

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 07:38 PM

Just been and had a play around, the fuse DOES NOT operate the rears only, the bottom fuse does left FRONT and rear plus the number plate regardless of ignition position, there is another fuse in the bundle of line fuses that does the right and dash lights.

The light switch feeds both the bottom fuse and the line fuse so your circuits are probably being back fed somehow via the weird dip thing that comes on at the second click of the keys on my car.

I think click one on the lighting switch has burnt out, click two is working as normal feeding both or also back feeding like it does with the ignition on, first thing I'd do is try a new switch.

Edited by CityEPete, 06 June 2015 - 07:44 PM.


#20 CityEPete

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 08:10 PM

Looking at my haynes again I think you have an inbetween system 1988 onwards has a dim dip relay system, 1991 car? If it is wired like that all the sidelights and dash are on the bottom fuse, the switch in click one feeds the bottom fuse via a red wire but it also connects to the relay with a red wire, when your ignition is on its getting power back fed to the fuse carrier from the relay's own feed rather than the light switch.

Pull out the switch and connect brown to red with a jumper wire, the sides should all come on without the ignition, if they do you need a new switch.

:-)

Edited by CityEPete, 06 June 2015 - 08:12 PM.


#21 Jaam-Design

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 11:38 PM

All,
 
Many thanks for the advice, i managed to have a look over the weekend and have the following response to advice given:
 
 
 
RE the sidelights you need to remove fuse and see if you have voltage on fuse 7-8 (the bottom one of the four) the voltage should come onto terminal 7 on the left as you switch the lights onto the first click,that should bring rear sides, number plate and the instrument lights on. If you are not getting voltage there first check and clean the spade terminal and the male terminal on the fuse box (clean the whole fusebox and smear the terminals with vaseline while you are there as it might help your other gremlins now and later too), like wise if you have voltage there clean the outgoing terminals on terminal 8 (bottom right) one of those SHOULD be your sidelights, red wire with a green tracer line, one is the panel lights the other is the sides, I am wondering if the light switch has burnt out on first click yet somehow passing voltage ito both main and sides in the second position?
 
So to sum up,
 
Ddo the panel lights or any others come on with the first click? YES, PANEL LIGHTS, REAR NUMBERPLATE AND REAR SIDE LIGHTS
 
Is there voltage on terminal 7 with the fuse out and the lights on first click? WITH IGNITION OFF AND ON THERE IS POWER TO 7 ON FIRST
 
Is there voltage on terminal 7 with the fuse out and the lights on second click? WITH IGNITION OFF AND ON THERE IS POWER TO 7 ON SECOND
 
 
 
Check behind the speedo binnacle, there may be some fuses(blue wires, 6 fuses) these are on my 1993 carb car and my dads 1994 IJ project - HAD A LOOK BEHIND BINACLE BUT COULDN'T SEE ANYTHING
 
 
 
Terminals 7-8 on the fusebox only deal with rear lights (and possibly dash), the lighting circuit itself is permanently live and the front sidelights work independently of the rear.
 
What should happen is the first click of the switch activates sidelights only with ignition off. With ignition on the relay should click and illuminate dipped beam.
Somewhere along the line the switch is working the wrong way round - have you pulled the switch? Yes that relay is standard so leave it in there.
On the back of the switch there are three wires:
 
Red - sidleight power YES
Blue - headlight power YES
Brown - Permanent live into the switch.YES
 
You need to check which becomes live at what stage and where.
 
I would recommend doing the following with the ignition off.
 
Pop the switch out and check you have permanent live on the brown wire. - YES
 
Then check the red becomes live on first click of switch - YES
 
Then check the blue becomes live on second click of switch - YES
 
 
If the above is all as it should be repeat the tests at the front panel bullet connectors:
 
Red is live on first click - YES
 
Blue/Red is live on second click (dipped beam) - YES
 
Blue/White is live on main beam - YES
 
 
The results of the second test will determine if the dip/dim relay as gone wrong.


#22 Jaam-Design

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 11:48 PM

Interestingly, when i was going through process of checking as above I note that the sidelights now don't work at all on any click (they did work as de).  but there is power on the red green wire when switch moved with or without ignition on

 

I'm presuming that as there is power going to the bullit connectors at the front at the correct time the problem must be between there and the light itself.  Going to check that the bulbs are not blown next and whether there is power at the wires on the right clicks.

 

As a further note, when checking the system as above i notice that the pink relay is now not clicking (that i can feel) but rest of lights work at correct time...

 

there is also a small yellow relay under the bonnet on the left hand side and i have no idea what this is for?

 

Will also jump the red to brown on the switch to check (aswell as the lights).

 

Haynes manual i think is the last circuit diag before it goes into injection models with wiring for stereo shown on diag. My car is rover 1991 (H) Mini Cooper with S pack with the reminents of what i presume is an alarm system that has now all but gone.

 

anyway will check the above and report back.



#23 CityEPete

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:05 AM

You need to check between the red at each front sidelight and the earth to see what you have, if it's getting as far as the clump of bullets behind the grill you might just have an earthing issue at the headlights, once the earths are bad you can get a back feed between all sorts of things.

I'm certain the front and rear are connected on your car so if the rear and dash are working it's a matter of tracing it from terminal 8 to each front light, that fact both are out would suggest it's between the grill bullets and the fusebox to me.

#24 Jaam-Design

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 10:56 PM

Well, finally got it sorted i hope.....

 

After replacing fuses (even if not blown) and tracing wires all the way to headlights and having live at right switching stages at the light i guess somewhere along the line checking and replacing stuff has done the trick.

 

At least one bulb was blown and noted that the new bulbs connection in the 'socket' worked in some positions and not others. With a little wiggling and a screwdriver to scratch and close the gaps the bulbs are now working at right stages.

 

Many thanks for all your help everyone.  Certainly an education in mini electronics. 



#25 CityEPete

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 10:09 AM

That's good then, I think most old cars can benefit from having every connection unplugged, cleaned with a squirt of servisol then put back with a smear of Vaseline on top from the front lights to the rear, fuse box and everything between!

#26 KernowCooper

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:45 PM

If you use vaseline on your connections to prevent moisture in the air causing corrosion on electrical terminals, you need to ensure the terminals are tight as any arcing which may result due to looseness in a Fire. I was on a starter course at Lucas some years back and the trainer smeared vaseline onto the solenoid to starter connection and left it slightly loose, upon cranking there was a big flash and small fireball.

 

Remeber vaselines name comes under Petroleum Jelly, the Scouts Group round here teach the old camp fire trick of a smear of vaseline on a cotton bud to get a fire up and running.

 

Slightly off topic but worth mentioning as Petroleum Jelly if flammable



#27 Albino_Hedgehog

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 10:33 AM

Sorry to bring an old topic back, I used the search and this was the closest thing to what I gonna ask!

I'm looking at getting some new bulbs for my sidelights, hoping for a more modern look with less yellowness,

What would you recommend?





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