93 replies to this topic

[Dan]

On your first point about the Bible being written in a time when we didn't understand stuff etc. are you saying that because we know more about how the earth works and how we as humans work and how Eco systems fit together, and about the solar system and Galaxy etc that that means there is no God?

No, not at all. It means there never was a God but primitive man invented one to describe and explain the universe because our brain evolved the need to problem solve before it developed the ability to reason. Your argument here still relies on there being a God, this is the same as trying to debate with a conspiracy theorist who keeps saying your point of view is absurd because it doesn't rely on a critical point of their own argument.

so there was no reasoning at all in the start of religions? My (admittedly limited) knowledge of religion shows significant levels of understanding of the world around them. Christians understood the need for distance in familial relationships way before genetics and inbreeding was understood. Equally some of the Eastern religions show amazing reasoning in the extrapolation of natural events into ideas that were incorporated into their religion.

That's way later than the start of religion. The start of religion is pretty much paganism, and is about observation not reason,

[Tamworthbay]

Being agnostic is the only possibility that stands up to logic................ A bit like the swapping option on the golden shot.

[Tamworthbay]

On your first point about the Bible being written in a time when we didn't understand stuff etc. are you saying that because we know more about how the earth works and how we as humans work and how Eco systems fit together, and about the solar system and Galaxy etc that that means there is no God?

No, not at all. It means there never was a God but primitive man invented one to describe and explain the universe because our brain evolved the need to problem solve before it developed the ability to reason. Your argument here still relies on there being a God, this is the same as trying to debate with a conspiracy theorist who keeps saying your point of view is absurd because it doesn't rely on a critical point of their own argument.

so there was no reasoning at all in the start of religions? My (admittedly limited) knowledge of religion shows significant levels of understanding of the world around them. Christians understood the need for distance in familial relationships way before genetics and inbreeding was understood. Equally some of the Eastern religions show amazing reasoning in the extrapolation of natural events into ideas that were incorporated into their religion.

That's way later than the start of religion. The start of religion is pretty much paganism, and is about observation not reason,

???????????????? If seeing an unexplained event and deciding what may have caused it is not reasoning then I don't know what is. As someone with a PhD in biochemistry I can tell you for sure that that is exactly how science works. The only difference is as a scientist I make the theory fit the facts to the best of my ability and accept that my assumptions could mean my theory is flawed. That is not always the case with religious thinking, but that does not take away the reasoning that leads to those religious theories. To suggest that those who came up with religious ideas many thousands of years ago were ignorant and unreasoning suggests little reasoning on behalf of the point arguing it.

Both science and religion depend on assumptions that need to be proven. Whether that is the existence of dark matter or Buddha. To automatically suggest that anyone religious is not capable of reasoning and is narrow minded beggars belief if I am honest. I have met as many narrow minded scientists as I have Christians!

[Fast Ivan]

I know a few people who are scientists, some world leaders in their field, who are also religious.....

[Ethel]

I look at it from a functional point of view. You could never disprove the existence of a god creator, but is there any value in believing in one if you are constantly revising your beliefs to fit with what science keeps discovering about the workings of the universe?

 

The gender of your children was either god's will or chance, before we understood genetics. Now we do, it's no longer chance. It could still be we've just discovered how god expresses her will, but thinking that doesn't make an iota of difference to our new found knowledge and how we can exploit it.

 

You could think we now have the power to usurp god, by taking control of the process. A believer might counter that argument by saying god is expressing their will through us and our science. Though then, you'd have deprived us of our free will, and we are incapable of believing in anything. Which is a bigger problem for religion to resolve than it is for science.

[Steve220]

I believe in bacon. Bacon for all!

[Gerbil367]

This is a deep subject for a Mini forum!!  

 

Me, I just stumble through life and I dont really understand how we can have most religions who believe in 1 God, but then spend centuries trying to destroy each others views - usually violently!

[Tamworthbay]

I believe in bacon. Bacon for all!

mmmmm, bacon............. Smoked or course, unsmoked is the work of the devil.

[Steve220]

"For he who eats bacon will gain prosperity and happiness"

[Tamworthbay]

And it's got to be brown sauce or HP fruity NOT ketchup.

[Steve220]

Get out.

[Tamworthbay]

Don't tell me you are a ketchup fan, people have talked about thinking about considering looking at pictures of bad things just so this country can have the national institution of pure and utter Britishness that is HP fruity sauce. It epitomises everything that is good and great about Gods own country and is British to the core (please note, the fact it is presently made in the Netherlands is just evidence of our philanthropy towards less saucily developed nations).

[CityEPete]

Half of my family are the non bacon eating variety, they all eat it when no one is watching though!

[Tamworthbay]

Half of my family are the non bacon eating variety, they all eat it when no one is watching though!

ahhh, bacon has been the destroyer of many a vegetarians virtues

[CityEPete]

No no they are not those type of bacon dodgers! The other ones that put that fella with the long hair on that big cross, Lol.