65 replies to this topic

[inim_repooc]

argh! I have been looking at getting new tyres on my mini recently and everywhere I look on here there are people asking about 13" tyres and then 3 pages of reply's telling them to go and spend their hard earned money on a new set of 10"or 12" wheels and tyres!

 

I know that 13" wheels are not perfectly suited to the mini - but the amount of crap and hate on them really annoys me, I run them on my mini - in fact I particularly wanted a car with the sportspack - and IMHO they handle perfectly well on the ROAD and they still get you around corners like a mini should  - yet still people sit writing long essays based on technical data and knowledge alone and come to the conclusion that they are 'unsafe' or that they handle badly or 'tramline' - RUBBISH! (most of the time...)

 

While yes - they were more of a marketing and styling thing for rover, they would not have fitted them if they ruined the most renown part of the mini - the handling, and my real world experience is this:

 

• yes, 13" wheels put more strain on the car and steering
• wear and tracking imperfections can be exaggerated with them on
• they look really good
• non mini nerds never fail to love them
• on the track etc - they can offer better grip than other sizes...
• they look okay with the sport-pack arches - smaller wheels make the sportspack cars look even more over arched - and you have to change the arches as well - if like me you paid ££££'s extra to get a factory sportspack car then this is madness!

The thing that gets me with all this is that while in my own mind I think they are fine - I get self concious of what other people think - (for other reasons - I'm really self conscious and this carry's through...)  and end up in a lost void of wasting my hard earnt money,(what of it there is anyway...) or keeping what I have and locking myself into it now I need to invest in new tires on the front at least and also getting the rims restored as I recently had a bit of a crash and trashed them... 

 

 

Rant over!      - actual non biased advice on weather I should save and go 12" (maybe 12x6 deep dish JBW?) or lock my self back into 13" by getting new tires and paying to have the alloys restored would be much appreciated! 

 

 

Thanks - I'm not usually this grumpy      - I'm just pretty unwell right now and to top it off I have now got to find the money to repair my mini after crashing it! (basicly all that I earnt in the last few months going to work is now going to go on repairing the damage that happened... while going to that place of work!  - fun times!)

Edited by inim_repooc, 08 December 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[Craig89]

You must have crashed it because you had 13s and not 10s, obviously!





Joke

[inim_repooc]

You must have crashed it because you had 13s and not 10s, obviously!





Joke

totally - not related to a diesel spillage on a wet road....  

Edited by inim_repooc, 08 December 2015 - 09:41 PM.

[Batmini]

Can't beat a good rant !

One thing you will find owning a classic car, everyone's a critic. If it's not your wheels it's your arches, or your mirrors, or your paint scheme, or this or that.

But for every one of them, there's another that likes your wheels, arches etc.

Enjoy your mini, they're supposed to be individual!

Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and some just stink ! Lol!

[inim_repooc]

Can't beat a good rant !

One thing you will find owning a classic car, everyone's a critic. If it's not your wheels it's your arches, or your mirrors, or your paint scheme, or this or that.

But for every one of them, there's another that likes your wheels, arches etc.

Enjoy your mini, they're supposed to be individual!

Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and some just stink ! Lol!

this made me laugh for the first time in a while! - thanks - I think you hit the imaginary nail on the head there! 

[Mon_Papillon]

Do what makes you happy, your car your money!

If you go the referb route and fancy a change what about a colour change?

[inim_repooc]

Do what makes you happy, your car your money!

If you go the referb route and fancy a change what about a colour change?

hadn't thought about that... maybe.... 

Edited by inim_repooc, 08 December 2015 - 10:23 PM.

[minifreek1]

Im with you on the 13's... I particularly bought 13" rims and the Sportspack arches BEFORE I bought the Mini I have now...

 

I heard that they ruin the wheel bearings and will need replaceing every 6 months with them on.... don't care... gives me something to do... and an excuse to have a tinker with me motor...

 

I do like the look of the 13" wheels and the deep dish they have too..

 

I removed the 12" Minilites that was fitted as they had almost no grip... maybe its the budget tyres that are fitted, but they didnt feel anywhere near as good as the 13" wheels do....

[inim_repooc]

Im with you on the 13's... I particularly bought 13" rims and the Sportspack arches BEFORE I bought the Mini I have now...

 

I heard that they ruin the wheel bearings and will need replaceing every 6 months with them on.... don't care... gives me something to do... and an excuse to have a tinker with me motor...

 

I do like the look of the 13" wheels and the deep dish they have too..

 

I removed the 12" Minilites that was fitted as they had almost no grip... maybe its the budget tyres that are fitted, but they didnt feel anywhere near as good as the 13" wheels do....

What you say about the 12's is interesting!   - I really need to get some IRL experience in minis with different wheels to compare to 13's - but at the end of they day, what does it matter?    also, the wheel bearings on mine (factory sportspack) are all original but one I just replaced as there was SOME play - nothing excessive though after 17 years! 

[Cooperman]

It's not a question of '13" wheel hate', rather it's an appreciation of how the classic Mini suspension system is designed to work.

Because of the limitations of travel of the suspension arms due to the physical constraints of it being a small car the depth of the tyre is required to provide a fair part of the suspension's ability to work as it should. Now, if you take a 165/70 x 10 tyre, the depth of the tyre is 70% of 165 mm, which is 115.5 mm. However, the tyre depth with a 175/50 x 13 is only 87.5 mm, so the loss of suspension compliance is obvious.

To really make a 175/50 x 13 tyre work you would need to increase the available suspension travel by around 1.5" at the tyre centre line. Raising the ride height by that amount would help, but is not the complete solution.

In the wet or in slippy conditions on a normal road with road tyres there is an optimum tyre width/contact area and this is arguably best achieved with a top quality 145 section tyre and they do give the best handling. In the dry a 13" tyre can work well so long as the surface is smooth and the suspension is set accurately as the 13" is less tolerant of suspension inaccuracy, especially camber and rear toe-in. Wet braking cannot be as good with increased contact area on the road.

Now, for race tracks a different situation exists. First of all racing tyres do not behave anything like a road tyre. Tyre compound is selected for the conditions and the track and different engineering requirements exist. The need for long (in Mini terms) travel suspension disappears and the tyre compound takes care of the contact pressure requirements.

Don't confuse road-holding with handling. I have tested Minis on race tracks where the road-holding was spectacular, but the handling was quite poor.

The only other aspect of a 13" rim with a wide tyre is the increased cross sectional area presented to the airflow. this, together with the wide arch extensions, increased the aerodynamic drag and reduces top speed, although to most classic car owners this is not particularly important.]

Yes, for road Minis these 13" wheels are just a styling exercise for marketing purposes introduced long after the Mini was a 'current performance car'.

Edited by Cooperman, 08 December 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[inim_repooc]

It's not a question of '13" wheel hate', rather it's an appreciation of how the classic Mini suspension system is designed to work.

Because of the limitations of travel of the suspension arms due to the physical constraints of it being a small car the depth of the tyre is required to provide a fair part of the suspension's ability to work as it should. Now, if you take a 165/70 x 10 tyre, the depth of the tyre is 70% of 165 mm, which is 115.5 mm. However, the tyre depth with a 175/50 x 13 is only 87.5 mm, so the loss of suspension compliance is obvious.

To really make a 175/50 x 13 tyre work you would need to increase the available suspension travel by around 1.5" at the tyre centre line. Raising the ride height by that amount would help, but is not the complete solution.

In the wet or in slippy conditions on a normal road with road tyres there is an optimum tyre width/contact area and this is arguably best achieved with a top quality 145 section tyre and they do give the best handling. In the dry a 13" tyre can work well so long as the surface is smooth and the suspension is set accurately as the 13" is less tolerant of suspension inaccuracy, especially camber and rear toe-in. Wet braking cannot be as good with increased contact area on the road.

Now, for race tracks a different situation exists. First of all racing tyres do not behave anything like a road tyre. Tyre compound is selected for the conditions and the track and different engineering requirements exist. The need for long (in Mini terms) travel suspension disappears and the tyre compound takes care of the contact pressure requirements.

Don't confuse road-holding with handling. I have tested Minis on race tracks where the road-holding was spectacular, but the handling was quite poor.

The only other aspect of a 13" rim with a wide tyre is the increased cross sectional area presented to the airflow. this, together with the wide arch extensions, increased the aerodynamic drag and reduces top speed, although to most classic car owners this is not particularly important.]

Yes, for road Minis these 13" wheels are just a styling exercise for marketing purposes introduced long after the Mini was a 'current performance car'.

the tire suspension you mentioned (I forgot all about it!) is a good point when talking about the overall comfort and ride of the mini - for that I would agree that 10's are the best way to go - but with good cones and rubber I would think that 13's are quite capable of doing the  job, be it less comfortably than smaller wheels! I do find my mini can be a little slippery in the wet - having spun on a fast corner at around 50 mph before....    I believe this to be down to the contact pressure, as you say, caused by the wider contacting surface spreading the weight and reducing pressure? I drive my car on the road daily, I dont plan to rag it around a track too often, if ever so really all I want is a good looking set of wheels that offer good drive ability - once I got used to the apparent lack of wet gripping I have got on just fine! and as long as the mini keeps up its current mpg (around 40 on a good run and 32-35 running about) and can easily sit at 70 mph I'm happy - she doest really struggle at all until you get to 90 mph (indicated that is..) which is daft and is a speed I would never do on the motorways etc under normal conditions, apart from finding out what the top speed is  (touched 97, probably with the wind working with me!  ) 

 

This said would you recommend that I save up and go say 12x6 or save my cash and keep what the car had from the factory (buying new yoko 539's I think...) , which will save on costs and keep the car as it always has been? 

 

Thanks for your speedy reply! 

 

 

EDIT: what  air pressure do people run their 13's at? I currently run 32 in front and 30 in back...

Edited by inim_repooc, 08 December 2015 - 10:22 PM.

[Spider]

Mate, if you love the 13's - go knock your socks off!!  Buy, fit, enjoy, never mind what everyone else thinks or what the technicalities are (as long as it's safe and legal).

 

I'm often hearing it in regards to my Mokes too. When the Mokes were originally developed - as an off road military vehicle mind you - they were on 10's but failed in this role due to lack of ground clearance! 

 

When we got them here, the first thing most of the farmers did was to fit 12's or 14's to them to give them ground clearance!  Eventually BMC saw the light and did proper (though still half baked) conversion work to fit 13's on them, but these are a much bigger wheel than will fit the Mini!  These have 75 and 80 series Profile!!

 

I love them like this, not only for their ground Clearance (8" of it!  as much as any 4WD) but also for the look of them.

 

None the less, I still hear it that they are not 'proper Mokes' because they are not on 10's.

 

If I wanted to get 'narky' and anal about it, the Mini Moke - which was on 10's actually finished production - world wide - in 1968, no more since. The Moke (technically a different car) - which is on 13's - started production in 1968 and went on from there. 

 

There, my rant and ended!!

 

But, if you like 13's on your Mini, go for it.

[nicklouse]

I know what size wheels my next road going Mini will have.

[inim_repooc]

I know what size wheels my next road going Mini will have.

and that is? 

[inim_repooc]

Mate, if you love the 13's - go knock your socks off!!  Buy, fit, enjoy, never mind what everyone else thinks or what the technicalities are (as long as it's safe and legal).

 

I'm often hearing it in regards to my Mokes too. When the Mokes were originally developed - as an off road military vehicle mind you - they were on 10's but failed in this role due to lack of ground clearance! 

 

When we got them here, the first thing most of the farmers did was to fit 12's or 14's to them to give them ground clearance!  Eventually BMC saw the light and did proper (though still half baked) conversion work to fit 13's on them, but these are a much bigger wheel than will fit the Mini!  These have 75 and 80 series Profile!!

 

I love them like this, not only for their ground Clearance (8" of it!  as much as any 4WD) but also for the look of them.

 

None the less, I still hear it that they are not 'proper Mokes' because they are not on 10's.

 

If I wanted to get 'narky' and anal about it, the Mini Moke - which was on 10's actually finished production - world wide - in 1968, no more since. The Moke (technically a different car) - which is on 13's - started production in 1968 and went on from there. 

 

There, my rant and ended!!

 

But, if you like 13's on your Mini, go for it.

Call it ignorance, but I diddnt know that 'mokes' were produced with 13" wheels later on!  -  I love off-roading and if I lived in a dryer country I would love to have a moke! 

 

Thanks for your reply - at least I'm not alone in the 13" ranting world!