57 replies to this topic

[Boycie]

Migliacars is right.  The whole situation is far too complex.  Swapping bodyshells was not a problem in the past and the DVLA points-based system for keeping the registration is a recent thing, in the grand scheme of things.

You can't just accuse people of having a 'dodgy' car because it isn't how it left the factory.  You certainly can't remove these cars from their rightful owners.  Most aren't stolen, they are modified and messed about with over the years and as above, some people are so desperate they use an old registration on a newer vehicle to save £140 a year.

Don't get me wrong, I utterly hate seeing a 60s/ 70s logbook on an 80s car, but it is not possible to police this without massive manpower, or indeed prove the swap was done to avoid paying road tax.  The DVLA do not know what to do about it, clearly.  As I said above, all we can do as enthusiasts is to avoid such cars or simply take them as they are- vehicles of unknown provenance that are to be taken on, knowing full well they are someone's 'creation'.

Buyer beware.

[Shifty]

The problem with people getting on their soap box and accusing car#1, car#2, car#3 of being ringers is that very often people are wrong and it just causes an argument.

 

I've seen loads of car be flagged up as 'ringers' when in actual fact they are no such thing.  

 

At the same time it gets right on my nerves when I see a car sold as having been 'reshelled in the 90's.  Anyone who was into minis in the 90's knows this is utter crap!!  No one reshelled a car in the 90's, you just went out and bought another one, much easier and cheaper!!

 

When the free tax came in, all of a sudden cars got 'reshelled'....

[nollyd]

wooooo slow down people,i never said scrap these cars or they are ringers,what im saying is when he reshelled the car he should have kept the logbook to that shell,surely he would have had it and if not,why.in other words if i put a 60s engine in my car its a 60s car.nah not in my book.id never want to see a mini scrapped.

im not on my soapbox im just stating that i have an 80s shell i pay tax so why should someone with an obvious 80s shell get away with tax by putting old number plates on.

so from what i have read so far,most of you wouldnt mind if i got 60s plates on my car and told you all about it to dodge tax.

be honest i would get slated for it.

[nollyd]

sorry i did say scrap the lot in a previous post but i was angry,id never want to see a mini scrapped just pay your dues on the year of shell not plates.

[mab01uk]

In just 3 years 1980's Minis will start to become tax exempt each year for the following 10 years.......that is assuming another Labour government does not get elected and cancel the rolling exemption like Blair & Brown did last time.

 

In the overall scheme of things any historic tax avoidance is only a tiny fraction of the huge increase in vehicle road tax evasion that has happened since paper tax discs were no longer required to be displayed.........

 

DVLA decision found to have backfired as figures show government has lost as much as eight times as it hoped to save

"The government looks to have lost as much as £80m of revenue as a result of its decision to scrap car tax discs. The move has also led to a doubling in the number of unlicensed vehicles on British roads.

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) ended the need for drivers to display a valid tax disc in October 2014, saying that the move would save the taxpayer £10m a year by making the system more efficient. However, that decision looks to have backfired, after official figure showed that the exchequer has lost as much as eight times the intended saving.

An analysis of road users carried out recently showed that about 1.4% of vehicles were being driven without vehicle excise duty. This was up from just 0.6% two years ago, when a disc was still required. The Department for Transport (DfT) estimated that about 560,000 vehicles were untaxed."

https://www.theguard...g-car-tax-discs

Edited by mab01uk, 03 June 2017 - 09:24 AM.

[nollyd]

the base models id would have to be kept unless a new shell is purchased and receipt retained as proof.

[nollyd]

can you explain more on 80s cars becoming tax exempt in 3 years please mab01uk.i know its a tiny fraction of the fraud that goes on,but what can we do.i used to like the old tax disc,still have the old one.bring it back i say,its a simple visual proof of road tax.

[DomCr250]

can you explain more on 80s cars becoming tax exempt in 3 years please mab01uk.i know its a tiny fraction of the fraud that goes on,but what can we do.i used to like the old tax disc,still have the old one.bring it back i say,its a simple visual proof of road tax.

It's a roiling 40 year exception - so in 2020 cars that were built in 1980 will be tax exempt ...that is assuming the government at the time does not decided to scrap the rule.

 

This is nothing new to be honest - my mate had an mid 60's Cooper S in the 80's that had been re-shelled in the 70's with a Mk3 shell.  There was no historic expemption then, just lots of rusty mini's and a desire to keep them going for as long as possible.  He took a hit when he sold it as most people even then knew it was a re-shell. 

[Cooperman]

A little re-shelling story, if I may.

 

In 1968 I was working in a design office and I had a young apprentice working for me who had a 1962 Mini 850, of which he was very proud. He was most impresed that I was so involved in rallying and that my then-wife had a 1275 'S' as her road car.

 

As an engineering apprentice he was good with hands-on work and decided that he wanted to make his little Mini go not quite so slowly. I told him how to do some basic mods to the head including fitting slightly bigger valves. This he did plus putting the C.R. up a bit and one Monday he came in full of the joys of life and told me it was going much better and would I go out with him at lunchtime to tell him how I thought it went.

 

We went out into some twisty roads, he entered a corner much too fast, slid sideways and it 'fell over'.  I said that he wanted to know how I thought it went, I thought it rolled beautifully!

 

Anyway, the shell was very bent, but as I was so involved in rallying I knew a lot of people and a friend of mine who had a body-shop had an early Mk.2 shell which had been involved in a rear end shunt. The insurance had paid for a completely new shell to be fitted so this one was 'spare'. My friend didn't want anything for it and for the cost of him fitting a new rear panel and some work on the boot floor, plus some painting, we got it very cheaply. It was like a new shell then with no rust.

 

The young guy then re-built his 1962 car into a 1967 shell with the help of a couple of fellow apprentices plus a bit of input from me. I found a Mk.2 rear screen and some Mk.2 rear lights, but everything else was as his old Mk.1. It was fortunate that the new shell was the same colour, although it had a white roof. The VIN plate was taken from the original shell and my young apprentice had a lot of pleasure driving it.

 

That sort of thing was not uncommon back in the 1960's. A lot of owners fitted Mk.2 rear lights as they were bigger and thus safer. Not many people noticed the larger rear screen and, anyway, who would have cared.

[CityEPete]

My original proposal was purely for a logbooks for sale thread where they came with nothing but the v5c and sometimes a vin plate, there's never been a time where building that into a car was legal and never will be.

It's never going to get stopped whilst there are people happy to buy and sell hooky cars, as the rewards are getting bigger that won't stop so I've taken to trying to keep mine safe and leaving people to it.

[mab01uk]

can you explain more on 80s cars becoming tax exempt in 3 years please mab01uk.i know its a tiny fraction of the fraud that goes on,but what can we do.i used to like the old tax disc,still have the old one.bring it back i say,its a simple visual proof of road tax.

 

As said 40 year rolling classic/Historic car exemption........in 2020 it will be 1980 cars that become exempt, in 2021 it will be 1981 cars exempt and so on.......

 

It used to be a rolling 25 year old historic exemption that a Conservative government introduced many years ago but was cancelled when Blair/Brown New Labour got into power as they were anti-motorist and believed only wealthy people had classic cars.......the Conservatives eventually brought it back when they re-gained power but at a 40 year rolling exemption.

[CityEPete]

I just searched "log book" on ebay, loads on there and many of them minis, memorabilia tax exempt nudge nudge wink wink, total *******.

[nollyd]

Have looked on other forums on this.cosworths clios mg triumphs.im suprised to be honest.
There is a few people against it giving there thoughts and what they THINK the law is.basically ive come to the conclusion that nobody gives a s**t.and if you do you get grief from all directions.
One even said just change the plates and the sticker on the dash and off you go.that was a clio forum newer cars.
Ya know what f*** it,cityEpete where is that logbook if other people can do it then i will.nice 87 mayfair dressed in 60s plates with no effort to make it look 60s.see what you all say then.
And thats the reason people do it because no one cares and how can you go against that.

[CityEPete]

Sad aint it,but what can you do?

[mab01uk]

Remember you can legally buy & transfer older registrations onto newer cars.......so if you do fancy an old 1960's plate on your 'retro' style Mini just for the 'look' they are readily available very cheaply from numberplate transfer companies. (It is not possible to transfer newer numbers onto older cars to make them look newer).

 

eg. This 1965 C reg plate is available for only £29 + standard Government Transfer Fee (£80) = £114.18 inc VAT :-

http://www.plates4le...r-plate/EFX397C