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Will The 2030 Ban & Dash To Electric Cars Spell The End For Classics In Uk?


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#16 Cooperman

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 05:27 PM

There was a question on the Quora Digest site which asked about liability if someone tripped over an electric charging cable running from a terrace house across the public pavement to a car.
There was no real answer except further question as to whether your home insurance would cover you or your electric car insurance.
That, of course, assumes that you are able to park outside your home, or even in the same street as your home.
There are many unanswered questions at this time.

#17 IronmanG

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 05:41 PM

There was a question on the Quora Digest site which asked about liability if someone tripped over an electric charging cable running from a terrace house across the public pavement to a car.
There was no real answer except further question as to whether your home insurance would cover you or your electric car insurance.
That, of course, assumes that you are able to park outside your home, or even in the same street as your home.
There are many unanswered questions at this time.


Yes a lot of things need to happen. And on the back of covid and possibly brexit depending how that goes, govt money isnt going to be available in the same quantities it was.

#18 Ethel

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 05:51 PM

Can't see that being allowed without some cable protection. Suppose a submerged socket at the curbside wouldn't be any more of an imposition than a dropped curb. It does seem to be much more of a wish list than policy 'n strategic planning at the mo'.

 

How many got smart-meters that'll turn out to be as useful as Betamax when they try to run the grid as smart technology?

 

On a tangent, I heard James May on the radio... Apparently he's an early adopter of hydrogen. He was reckoning we could have hydrogen through the existing pipes for when our boilers are outlawed. It leaks like a sieve now, so god knows what'd be like with the smallest known molecule! I suppose they could bond the hydrogen in to some sort of carrier molecule - carbon maybe  :P  



#19 IronmanG

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 06:19 PM

Can't see that being allowed without some cable protection. Suppose a submerged socket at the curbside wouldn't be any more of an imposition than a dropped curb. It does seem to be much more of a wish list than policy 'n strategic planning at the mo'.

How many got smart-meters that'll turn out to be as useful as Betamax when they try to run the grid as smart technology?

On a tangent, I heard James May on the radio... Apparently he's an early adopter of hydrogen. He was reckoning we could have hydrogen through the existing pipes for when our boilers are outlawed. It leaks like a sieve now, so god knows what'd be like with the smallest known molecule! I suppose they could bond the hydrogen in to some sort of carrier molecule - carbon maybe :P


I guess its he transition that's the tricky bit. Put chargers on streetlanps? The cabling needs beefing up. Put chargers kerbside outside peoples houses. Then the people with petrol diesel cant park there as people need to charge. I heard james may was into hydrogen. Think I read its 25 % efficient or something compared to 3 times that for petrol? I would have to check those figures.
I like electric. I think for the majority of people and journeys it makes massive sense and has so many positives from low down torque to quiet vehicles and pollution reduction in city centres. It's just not a realistic option until batteries are at least 3 or 4 times more energy dense and capable of faster charge rates and better forms of charging are made commonplace.

#20 Bobbins

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 08:49 PM

I switched to electric back in April and do 25,000 miles/year, that's a consistent 100 miles/day and not a lot at weekends. If I charge at home it takes 10 hours via a 13A plug (I have it set for 10A) but if I'm late home and I can't get all the charge in overnight I'll catch up the following night, or just charge at one of the higher current chargers the following day. More commonly though I charge at work which is likely to be the way it works for a lot of people, unless of course you work from home or home is your base. My supply at work gives me 12kw so I can put the 100 miles back in in only a couple of hours.

Before the switch to electric I had the same anxieties as everyone else, mainly that I'd be stuck having to sit around for hours somewhere waiting to get enough charge to go where I wanted to. That's not been the reality and once I'd tuned myself into using some of the apps that are available (Zap Map and A Better Route Planner etc) it's been pretty plain sailing. It's not currently going to work for everyone, a driveway or availability to charge at work really helps, but the charging barriers will be overcome.

One aspect I have got my head round now is that paying 25p/kWh when travelling is no big deal, it balances against much cheaper charging and overall it's still much cheaper to run than my last diesel. This is similar to Cooperman's comment that it won't really matter if petrol is a lot more expensive, classic car owners don't do enough miles for it to matter. It's much more important that it's still available.

#21 Ethel

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 10:44 PM

True, roadside charging could require a dedicated parking space, but that'd apply in any case if you were to use the supply from your own house.

 

Do street lamps have beefy enough cabling? I guess there's some spare capacity since they've switched to LED. A lot of lampposts were moved back from the kerb for road safety not all that long ago. Surely there aren't enough of them to be practical though, so a complete refit of street furniture would be required. I see the best opportunity being at workplaces, retail parks... where there's parking density to compress the infrastructure economically, could possibly be incorporated with solar panel installations or the odd wind turbine.

 

The best solution is likely to be more societal than just swapping one energy technology for another. Passing your test 'n getting a car as soon as you turn 17 isn't the right of passage it once was. A combination of cycling, leccy scooters & "Uber" (autonomous, or not) could play a much bigger part in conjunction with buses & trains for going farther. Can't see the UK being at the vanguard with our free-market ideology though. Somewhere that will do state intervention to nudge demand and incentivise to shift costs (like subsidising buses & taxis to save money on parking provision) and set policy to standardise and integrate control & management systems. 

 

The concept of car ownership is becoming ever less suitable as a transport model. Many won't be able to afford it, those that can would be over specifying to meet occasional load & range requirements. Far better to have a contract that provides what you need when you need it and makes the provider responsible for maintaining and recycling the vehicles as owners. We love the NHS, would a NTS* be too hard a sell?

 

 

*That's not the National Trust Scotland, in case you've experience of trying to park in Glencoe!



#22 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 10:45 PM

.


Yes a lot of things need to happen. And on the back of covid and possibly brexit depending how that goes, govt money isnt going to be available in the same quantities it was.

 

Ah but the government is starting to use MMT (Modern Monetary Theory or Magic Money Tree).  Endless amounts can be brought into existence by central banks.  No one will notice the purchasing power of the currency diminishing, not for a while anyway.



#23 mab01uk

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 10:29 AM

"Vauxhall is in talks about producing electric vans in Britain after calls from some of the country's biggest fleet operators to speed up their introduction.
The car maker, owned by Peugeot-parent Groupe PSA, is understood to have held discussions about whether the vehicles could be made at its plant in Luton. BT-owned Openreach is attempting to put together a coalition of potential buyers – including Royal Mail and British Gas."
https://www.thisismo...n=1490&ito=1490

 



#24 mab01uk

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 01:07 PM

Citroen launches site to gauge UK demand for Ami city car.
"Electric quadricycle is intended to appeal to urban drivers, and UK boss wants it here, but firm is asking potential buyers to register their interest."
https://www.autocar....nd-ami-city-car

QA0zOcJl.jpg

 



#25 Ethel

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 01:59 PM

"Vauxhall is in talks about producing electric vans in Britain after calls from some of the country's biggest fleet operators to speed up their introduction.
The car maker, owned by Peugeot-parent Groupe PSA, is understood to have held discussions about whether the vehicles could be made at its plant in Luton. BT-owned Openreach is attempting to put together a coalition of potential buyers – including Royal Mail and British Gas."
https://www.thisismo...n=1490&ito=1490

10 years too late. LDV were about to do that when they were allowed to go bust.



#26 Cooperman

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 07:09 PM

Vauxhall did work on an al-electric version of their CF Van in 1979 - '80 at their Luton facility.

My company did some development/design work together with an advanced composites partner company.

At one design review meeting I suggested that, as range was seen as an issue, maybe it might be worth considering installing a light-weight, all-alloy small diesel flat-3-cylinder engine of around 1 litre, possibly with forced induction, mounted under the rear floor and coupled to a generator, as a means of range-extension.

The Vauxhall guys simply dismissed the idea out-of-hand, deeming it impractical. My partner company did consider doing what would now be deemed a 'hybrid', but decided that the capital investment was not justified as we were both doing fine without taking that sort of financial risk. How times change!



#27 Furyan

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 05:56 PM

.


Yes a lot of things need to happen. And on the back of covid and possibly brexit depending how that goes, govt money isnt going to be available in the same quantities it was.

 

Ah but the government is starting to use MMT (Modern Monetary Theory or Magic Money Tree).  Endless amounts can be brought into existence by central banks.  No one will notice the purchasing power of the currency diminishing, not for a while anyway.

That's the SNP independence monetary policy, are you Nicola Sturgeon??



#28 IronmanG

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 08:14 PM

Vauxhall did work on an al-electric version of their CF Van in 1979 - '80 at their Luton facility.
My company did some development/design work together with an advanced composites partner company.
At one design review meeting I suggested that, as range was seen as an issue, maybe it might be worth considering installing a light-weight, all-alloy small diesel flat-3-cylinder engine of around 1 litre, possibly with forced induction, mounted under the rear floor and coupled to a generator, as a means of range-extension.
The Vauxhall guys simply dismissed the idea out-of-hand, deeming it impractical. My partner company did consider doing what would now be deemed a 'hybrid', but decided that the capital investment was not justified as we were both doing fine without taking that sort of financial risk. How times change!


You could have been a millionaire Cooperman!
Isnt is amazing that people in power have an amazing ability to be short sighted when they are making money

#29 Spider

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Posted 11 June 2021 - 09:39 AM

In line with the questions here about Fossil Fuels and their availability in years to come;-

 

https://www.bbc.com/...ss-57416829.amp

 

I do see for quite some time though, there will be Oil Refineries and Fossil Fuels available as they are used in a much wider applications than just cars on the road. The Marine world will rely of them for quite some time, agriculture, 'portable' and remote power systems and long distance freight hauling. I tend to think / guess that for Classic Car owners, fuel will likely be sold in drums, I'm not sure what type of retailer though would handle them (if it goes this way), perhaps it might just be another item of stock held by our parts retailers ?

 



#30 nicklouse

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Posted 11 June 2021 - 10:01 AM

I was having a chat the other day about electric transport. While battery power is al nice and simple it is not the solution. Electric motors definitely are but……

 

we will see in a few years.






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